Before we get into today's interview, there are a few legal issues we need to get out of the way.
First off, you have to do a little Googling before you read this, but I can't direct you to read anything in particular, however, if you'd like to Google, oh, I don't know, "Broadway" "Cancelled" and "Oscar Winner" you might stumble across an article that would be interesting to you as you read this anonymous interview provided you're searching the month of July 2019, and if you're not, you can add that to the Google Search as well. Productions get cancelled all the time, and Oscar Winners are always doing stuff, so I have no idea what you're going to find, but I wish you well on your journey.
The person I'm interviewing may or may not have worked on the production you may or may not be reading about, or they may have worked at the theater where it was taking place, or they might have just been hanging out backstage. I'm not able to tell you anything specific, but keep all that in mind.
Now, here's the interview:
ME: This has to be the craziest of these I've done.
THEM: I hadn't read any of them until our mutual friend reached out to you.
ME: You're not alone. Nobody reads these. The view count is good, but I suspect it's just my friend Betsy hitting refresh a thousand times.
THEM: (Laughs.) What a good friend.
ME: She's the best. So--we have to tread very lightly here, because I--frankly--do not want to be sued...again, and uh--
THEM: Again?
ME: Long story.
THEM: Okay.
ME: And also I'm going to go over this interview with my lawyer once we're done and certain things might be edited out to protect both you and I--is that all right?
THEM: That's great. Thank you.
ME: Okay. So--you worked on a show that was supposed to go to Broadway and was cancelled due to the behavior of an actor in that show and we're not saying when or where any of this happened.
THEM: Correct.
ME: We will not be talking about what you specifically did for the show, the production company, or the venue.
THEM: Correct.
ME: Okay, so we'll just say that you've worked on many interesting shows with many interesting people and you're going to speak generally about some of the situations you may have found yourself in, okay?
THEM: Let's do it.
ME: Have you ever worked on a show with someone who was fed lines through an earpiece?
THEM: Yes, I have.
ME: I want to start there, because this is something that really--I'm on the fence about it, I guess. I think allowing older actors to continue to do theater by assisting them with memorization is kind of wonderful, but I'm also wondering if it affects the performance in a way that somehow shortchanges the audience's experience.
THEM: Well I can tell you that if the actor is using the earpiece as a crutch because they don't know any of their lines, it would definitely impact audience experience. I don't think you can even call what's happening then a, uh, a performance. Let's break this down. We're saying most of a script is being fed to an actor who is just, uh, repeating those words. How is that acting?
ME: You'd be very in the moment, I guess?
THEM: (Laughs.) If you want to call it that--
ME: So you're saying it was a significant part of the show--that this person didn't know?
THEM: I don't--I don't think any of it was really in any shape to be, uh, shown to the public. This person was never on solid ground with any of the material.
ME: Would you say they didn't know 95% of it?
THEM: Saying that would be kind.
ME: Oddly enough, that's the least offensive thing that may or may not have happened with this particular person, correct?
THEM: Correct, but in some ways, uh, that was the day-to-day torture. The nail-biting over--you know, even with an earpiece, when you have someone up onstage who is unprepared--at that level--uh--it's not like you relax just because they're being assisted with a device.
ME: Do you think age was the reason for not knowing the lines?
THEM: I'm sure that was part of it. Look, I would have a difficult time memorizing a grocery list if you asked me to, so I have immense respect for actors, and actors of a certain age, and I agree that I think a, uh, a tool to help them is just fine provided the work is still going in behind the tool.
ME: Do you think there was work there?
THEM: I think...I think there was talent. And I think this person comes from a time when talent really excused a lot of bad behavior and a lot of, uh, shortcomings.
ME: And this person may have primarily worked in film.
THEM: Yes.
ME: Do you think that old idea of film stars doing theater and vice versa is true? That they're such different mediums it's difficult to go from one to the other?
THEM: To that I would say Jason Robards. Uh, Denzel Washington?
ME: Viola Davis?
THEM: Viola Davis, certainly. Stage does require--I think--more than film does, in some ways, in terms of commitment. The work--like we talked about. I think maybe some people just don't want to do the work, and if there are other things--obstacles--in your way and you don't have the work to back you up, you're going to have some real problems.
ME: You've also worked on productions--and it might be the same production or it might not--with someone who physically assaulted a crew member.
THEM: Yes.
ME: I don't want to get into the details of what happened--
THEM: Good.
ME: --But...was that an immediate decision then to terminate the professional relationship with the actor in the show?
THEM: It was pretty immediate, at least as far as I knew. This was--this was a special circumstance, because it would mean--you know, you couldn't just bring in the understudy who was going to sell just as many tickets. There was a bigger decision to be made there, and in that moment, the right one was made and was made, I believe, in a timely fashion.
ME: But were there warning signs before that?
THEM: Oh yes. Every day.
ME: Such as?
THEM: As I mentioned, the preparedness--
ME: I mean, more like the physical--
THEM: Uh--that was the--there were physical or personal issues, definitely. Definitely. The last incident was a clear, uh--Okay, now we need to take action. I do think that allowances were made for this person that would not have been made for other people.
ME: Because of fame?
THEM: Because of fame. Because of the unique position--Uh, I've worked on shows where somebody got top billing--somebody was, there was no question, selling tickets. I've worked on a few shows like that. And, uh, if it were up to me, top billing would just be thrown in the garbage, because that is giving an incredible amount of power to somebody who can really turn around and screw you at any minute, so--
ME: But--I'm just playing actor's advocate here--
THEM: Devil's advocate?
ME: I'm an actor so--
THEM: Okay.
ME: It's about giving power to people who would otherwise not have it, because actors are so low on the totem pole, right?
THEM: Actors who get top billing are not usually low on the totem pole in general. Uh, in general, they're celebrities, right? Famous people? The--I agree with you that there need to be protections, but, uh, ironically, by the time you're above the title, you have plenty of protections just because you're powerful enough to command that position.
ME: So behavior was excused because of that unique circumstance?
THEM: Yes.
ME: What kinds of behavior?
THEM: Um.
ME: And you can just be general about it.
THEM: There was the lateness.
ME: To rehearsals?
THEM: Yes.
ME: How late?
THEM: One to two hours. Assuming the person showed up at all.
ME: There were no-shows?
THEM: To rehearsals, yes.
ME: I'm curious about this, because--obviously--we're talking about--it's safe to say this was an equity production.
THEM: Yes.
ME: And there are procedures for--if you're a performer who is--habitually late--in order to penalize that person?
THEM: Yes.
ME: Were those procedures followed?
THEM: If they were--and I'm sure they were--it only works if the top brass enforces them, and that's what I'll say about that.
ME: Otherwise it's just a stage manager writing up reports.
THEM: Correct.
ME: Do you think it's too obvious to just come right out and say 'There are different rules for different people?'
THEM: I, uh, you know, it's funny you say that, because, I have seen situations--on productions--where people who were, uh, high-profile, were held to very high standards even in the face of bad behavior.
ME: Have you worked on other productions where someone high-profile has been replaced?
THEM: Believe it or not, I have.
ME: Really?
THEM: Just one.
ME: Can you say why?
THEM: Similar thing--an assault--that time on another castmember.
ME: So assault is the dealbreaker, but everything else--
THEM: That's--you're right with--yes. I think you could probably get away with just about everything else. In the cast of the show I just mentioned, this person, who was replaced, they were constantly verbally harassing people before they actually put their hands on someone.
ME: And was that happening in the show you just worked on as well?
THEM: Oh yes.
ME: Were you ever on the receiving end of it?
THEM: I don't want to answer that question.
ME: Okay.
THEM: But I will say I witnessed it.
ME: The question of ethics sometimes comes up when talking about all this. The fact that we're charging people good money to come sit and--
THEM: There's a level of trust.
ME: Exactly. There's a level of trust there--between us and the audience. What's your take on that?
THEM: My take, uh, is that I've only ever worked on one show where I thought it was irresponsible to show the work to an audience, and this was the show.
ME: Did you know from the beginning it was going to be difficult?
THEM: Well, you know that adage--'When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time?' I think that the problem with adopting that is, uh, that when the first time we meet someone, they seem fine, we think we're good to go, and a lot of people who are, uh, difficult, are usually smart enough to back you into a corner before they show their true colors.
ME: So this person you worked with recently didn't display any issues until later on?
THEM: There were some issues, but, uh, you know, sometimes bad behavior, especially behavior that reads as kind of Old Hollywood, sometimes that's written off as, uh, funny?
ME: Until it's not funny.
THEM: Correct.
ME: Were people allowed to look at this actor during rehearsals?
THEM: You mean people like the director? No. Not at, uh--it depended on the day, but some days, you couldn't look at them, yes.
ME: What was the reason for that?
THEM: A bad mood, I guess?
ME: Is it possible that this person was in need of medication or was off their medication?
THEM: I guess that's possible, sure.
ME: Do you believe that to be the case?
THEM: I'm not a doctor, but, uh, I don't believe that's the cause of all of it, no, but I can see how it would be, uh, convenient--to say that.
ME: Did this person make demands about what people could wear around them?
THEM: Yes.
ME: Like what?
THEM: I believe the color white was on the list.
ME: Of things you couldn't wear?
THEM: Yes.
ME: How far-reaching was this behavior? Did it extend to people who worked at the venue, the front of house staff--
THEM: Yes. All of the above. You couldn't move in the theater. I mean, if this actor was onstage, you could not move. You couldn't make a sound. You couldn't whisper to the director. To anybody. It made things very difficult.
ME: How did this actor make it through tech?
THEM: Well it helps that they weren't there for most of it.
ME: Even at times when they were expected to be there?
THEM: Yes.
ME: The mutual friend who put me in touch with you said that you once got screamed at from the stage.
THEM: And I wasn't even in the theater at the time.
ME: How does that work?
THEM: The actor thought they saw me in the third row, fourth row--I don't know--I wasn't--like I said, I wasn't even in the room, and, uh, I guess they thought they saw me doing something--eating, chewing gum, something--and they started screaming about it.
ME: Was anybody there?
THEM: Oh, people were there. I don't know who they might have been yelling at. Might have been thin air.
ME: And then people paid hundreds of dollars to see them perform.
THEM: Very troubling.
ME: Was equity contacted about all this?
THEM: As far as I know, they were.
ME: What was their response?
THEM: They kicked it back to the creative team and the production team.
ME: What was your take on that?
THEM: That's you asking me my thoughts on equity and how they are at policing their own rules.
ME: Um, sure?
THEM: (Laughs.) I think they hesitate to make hard decisions sometimes, especially when it involves notable actors or, uh, others. Other notable kinds of people.
ME: Do they not want the bad press that would come out of a conflict?
THEM: You'd have to ask them that.
ME: Do you think they should have stepped in here?
THEM: It's tricky, because in this case, there weren't twenty other actors being affected by it, so I don't know if they looked at it as--you know, I'm not going to speculate. And to be honest, I'm not sure them stepping in would have done any good. This is not a person who is, uh, concerned with what people say about them. They've reached a point where they're going to do what they want and if you don't like it, they'll walk. That puts everybody involved in a really bad position, but you're not always able to know that that's how someone's going to be until it's too late.
ME: But in this case, did you suspect it?
THEM: I...I would have preferred going with someone who had a little more, uh, stage credentials. Honestly, before I even--before we ever had problems--I did not think it was wise to give a role of, uh, a certain magnitude, to someone with limited stage experience.
ME: Is there anything you think we can learn from all this so it's not just a bunch of war stories?
THEM: We talked earlier about who needs protection and who doesn't. I think it's true that actors--most actors working on a show--they're vulnerable to being mistreated, and that's why we have certain rules in place. I think that when you're talking about actors or performers at a certain level, and they're able to command a certain salary and have a position of, uh, importance, within the production, the rules need to shift a little bit, and we need to make sure they're not in a position to, uh, mistreat others. I think most of them would be fine with that. That's why they get paid the big bucks. And they know that some of their colleagues need to be kept in check.
ME: Does this kind of thing sour you from doing continuing to do theater?
THEM: No. It should, but it doesn't. It--It makes me think a little bit harder about what sort of projects I involve myself in, but I'm lucky in that, I can make those choices. Some people have to take what they can get. And I don't think it's a theater culture. I think it's the culture. The culture of the world is a celebrity culture. So if you stop doing theater, you're still going to see this kind of thing going on. Whether you think it directly impacts you or not, it does. In the theater, we're lucky in that we have protocol, but you have to be willing to follow the protocol.
ME: Sounds like what we would say to Congress.
THEM: (Laughs.) Yes. The rules are there, but you have to enforce them. And the minute you signal to somebody with power that you are willing to compromise on that? You're done. You're all done.
Them has worked on numerous productions over the course of their career, including some that may or may not have featured famous people.
First off, you have to do a little Googling before you read this, but I can't direct you to read anything in particular, however, if you'd like to Google, oh, I don't know, "Broadway" "Cancelled" and "Oscar Winner" you might stumble across an article that would be interesting to you as you read this anonymous interview provided you're searching the month of July 2019, and if you're not, you can add that to the Google Search as well. Productions get cancelled all the time, and Oscar Winners are always doing stuff, so I have no idea what you're going to find, but I wish you well on your journey.
The person I'm interviewing may or may not have worked on the production you may or may not be reading about, or they may have worked at the theater where it was taking place, or they might have just been hanging out backstage. I'm not able to tell you anything specific, but keep all that in mind.
Now, here's the interview:
ME: This has to be the craziest of these I've done.
THEM: I hadn't read any of them until our mutual friend reached out to you.
ME: You're not alone. Nobody reads these. The view count is good, but I suspect it's just my friend Betsy hitting refresh a thousand times.
THEM: (Laughs.) What a good friend.
ME: She's the best. So--we have to tread very lightly here, because I--frankly--do not want to be sued...again, and uh--
THEM: Again?
ME: Long story.
THEM: Okay.
ME: And also I'm going to go over this interview with my lawyer once we're done and certain things might be edited out to protect both you and I--is that all right?
THEM: That's great. Thank you.
ME: Okay. So--you worked on a show that was supposed to go to Broadway and was cancelled due to the behavior of an actor in that show and we're not saying when or where any of this happened.
THEM: Correct.
ME: We will not be talking about what you specifically did for the show, the production company, or the venue.
THEM: Correct.
ME: Okay, so we'll just say that you've worked on many interesting shows with many interesting people and you're going to speak generally about some of the situations you may have found yourself in, okay?
THEM: Let's do it.
ME: Have you ever worked on a show with someone who was fed lines through an earpiece?
THEM: Yes, I have.
ME: I want to start there, because this is something that really--I'm on the fence about it, I guess. I think allowing older actors to continue to do theater by assisting them with memorization is kind of wonderful, but I'm also wondering if it affects the performance in a way that somehow shortchanges the audience's experience.
THEM: Well I can tell you that if the actor is using the earpiece as a crutch because they don't know any of their lines, it would definitely impact audience experience. I don't think you can even call what's happening then a, uh, a performance. Let's break this down. We're saying most of a script is being fed to an actor who is just, uh, repeating those words. How is that acting?
ME: You'd be very in the moment, I guess?
THEM: (Laughs.) If you want to call it that--
ME: So you're saying it was a significant part of the show--that this person didn't know?
THEM: I don't--I don't think any of it was really in any shape to be, uh, shown to the public. This person was never on solid ground with any of the material.
ME: Would you say they didn't know 95% of it?
THEM: Saying that would be kind.
ME: Oddly enough, that's the least offensive thing that may or may not have happened with this particular person, correct?
THEM: Correct, but in some ways, uh, that was the day-to-day torture. The nail-biting over--you know, even with an earpiece, when you have someone up onstage who is unprepared--at that level--uh--it's not like you relax just because they're being assisted with a device.
ME: Do you think age was the reason for not knowing the lines?
THEM: I'm sure that was part of it. Look, I would have a difficult time memorizing a grocery list if you asked me to, so I have immense respect for actors, and actors of a certain age, and I agree that I think a, uh, a tool to help them is just fine provided the work is still going in behind the tool.
ME: Do you think there was work there?
THEM: I think...I think there was talent. And I think this person comes from a time when talent really excused a lot of bad behavior and a lot of, uh, shortcomings.
ME: And this person may have primarily worked in film.
THEM: Yes.
ME: Do you think that old idea of film stars doing theater and vice versa is true? That they're such different mediums it's difficult to go from one to the other?
THEM: To that I would say Jason Robards. Uh, Denzel Washington?
ME: Viola Davis?
THEM: Viola Davis, certainly. Stage does require--I think--more than film does, in some ways, in terms of commitment. The work--like we talked about. I think maybe some people just don't want to do the work, and if there are other things--obstacles--in your way and you don't have the work to back you up, you're going to have some real problems.
ME: You've also worked on productions--and it might be the same production or it might not--with someone who physically assaulted a crew member.
THEM: Yes.
ME: I don't want to get into the details of what happened--
THEM: Good.
ME: --But...was that an immediate decision then to terminate the professional relationship with the actor in the show?
THEM: It was pretty immediate, at least as far as I knew. This was--this was a special circumstance, because it would mean--you know, you couldn't just bring in the understudy who was going to sell just as many tickets. There was a bigger decision to be made there, and in that moment, the right one was made and was made, I believe, in a timely fashion.
ME: But were there warning signs before that?
THEM: Oh yes. Every day.
ME: Such as?
THEM: As I mentioned, the preparedness--
ME: I mean, more like the physical--
THEM: Uh--that was the--there were physical or personal issues, definitely. Definitely. The last incident was a clear, uh--Okay, now we need to take action. I do think that allowances were made for this person that would not have been made for other people.
ME: Because of fame?
THEM: Because of fame. Because of the unique position--Uh, I've worked on shows where somebody got top billing--somebody was, there was no question, selling tickets. I've worked on a few shows like that. And, uh, if it were up to me, top billing would just be thrown in the garbage, because that is giving an incredible amount of power to somebody who can really turn around and screw you at any minute, so--
ME: But--I'm just playing actor's advocate here--
THEM: Devil's advocate?
ME: I'm an actor so--
THEM: Okay.
ME: It's about giving power to people who would otherwise not have it, because actors are so low on the totem pole, right?
THEM: Actors who get top billing are not usually low on the totem pole in general. Uh, in general, they're celebrities, right? Famous people? The--I agree with you that there need to be protections, but, uh, ironically, by the time you're above the title, you have plenty of protections just because you're powerful enough to command that position.
ME: So behavior was excused because of that unique circumstance?
THEM: Yes.
ME: What kinds of behavior?
THEM: Um.
ME: And you can just be general about it.
THEM: There was the lateness.
ME: To rehearsals?
THEM: Yes.
ME: How late?
THEM: One to two hours. Assuming the person showed up at all.
ME: There were no-shows?
THEM: To rehearsals, yes.
ME: I'm curious about this, because--obviously--we're talking about--it's safe to say this was an equity production.
THEM: Yes.
ME: And there are procedures for--if you're a performer who is--habitually late--in order to penalize that person?
THEM: Yes.
ME: Were those procedures followed?
THEM: If they were--and I'm sure they were--it only works if the top brass enforces them, and that's what I'll say about that.
ME: Otherwise it's just a stage manager writing up reports.
THEM: Correct.
ME: Do you think it's too obvious to just come right out and say 'There are different rules for different people?'
THEM: I, uh, you know, it's funny you say that, because, I have seen situations--on productions--where people who were, uh, high-profile, were held to very high standards even in the face of bad behavior.
ME: Have you worked on other productions where someone high-profile has been replaced?
THEM: Believe it or not, I have.
ME: Really?
THEM: Just one.
ME: Can you say why?
THEM: Similar thing--an assault--that time on another castmember.
ME: So assault is the dealbreaker, but everything else--
THEM: That's--you're right with--yes. I think you could probably get away with just about everything else. In the cast of the show I just mentioned, this person, who was replaced, they were constantly verbally harassing people before they actually put their hands on someone.
ME: And was that happening in the show you just worked on as well?
THEM: Oh yes.
ME: Were you ever on the receiving end of it?
THEM: I don't want to answer that question.
ME: Okay.
THEM: But I will say I witnessed it.
ME: The question of ethics sometimes comes up when talking about all this. The fact that we're charging people good money to come sit and--
THEM: There's a level of trust.
ME: Exactly. There's a level of trust there--between us and the audience. What's your take on that?
THEM: My take, uh, is that I've only ever worked on one show where I thought it was irresponsible to show the work to an audience, and this was the show.
ME: Did you know from the beginning it was going to be difficult?
THEM: Well, you know that adage--'When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time?' I think that the problem with adopting that is, uh, that when the first time we meet someone, they seem fine, we think we're good to go, and a lot of people who are, uh, difficult, are usually smart enough to back you into a corner before they show their true colors.
ME: So this person you worked with recently didn't display any issues until later on?
THEM: There were some issues, but, uh, you know, sometimes bad behavior, especially behavior that reads as kind of Old Hollywood, sometimes that's written off as, uh, funny?
ME: Until it's not funny.
THEM: Correct.
ME: Were people allowed to look at this actor during rehearsals?
THEM: You mean people like the director? No. Not at, uh--it depended on the day, but some days, you couldn't look at them, yes.
ME: What was the reason for that?
THEM: A bad mood, I guess?
ME: Is it possible that this person was in need of medication or was off their medication?
THEM: I guess that's possible, sure.
ME: Do you believe that to be the case?
THEM: I'm not a doctor, but, uh, I don't believe that's the cause of all of it, no, but I can see how it would be, uh, convenient--to say that.
ME: Did this person make demands about what people could wear around them?
THEM: Yes.
ME: Like what?
THEM: I believe the color white was on the list.
ME: Of things you couldn't wear?
THEM: Yes.
ME: How far-reaching was this behavior? Did it extend to people who worked at the venue, the front of house staff--
THEM: Yes. All of the above. You couldn't move in the theater. I mean, if this actor was onstage, you could not move. You couldn't make a sound. You couldn't whisper to the director. To anybody. It made things very difficult.
ME: How did this actor make it through tech?
THEM: Well it helps that they weren't there for most of it.
ME: Even at times when they were expected to be there?
THEM: Yes.
ME: The mutual friend who put me in touch with you said that you once got screamed at from the stage.
THEM: And I wasn't even in the theater at the time.
ME: How does that work?
THEM: The actor thought they saw me in the third row, fourth row--I don't know--I wasn't--like I said, I wasn't even in the room, and, uh, I guess they thought they saw me doing something--eating, chewing gum, something--and they started screaming about it.
ME: Was anybody there?
THEM: Oh, people were there. I don't know who they might have been yelling at. Might have been thin air.
ME: And then people paid hundreds of dollars to see them perform.
THEM: Very troubling.
ME: Was equity contacted about all this?
THEM: As far as I know, they were.
ME: What was their response?
THEM: They kicked it back to the creative team and the production team.
ME: What was your take on that?
THEM: That's you asking me my thoughts on equity and how they are at policing their own rules.
ME: Um, sure?
THEM: (Laughs.) I think they hesitate to make hard decisions sometimes, especially when it involves notable actors or, uh, others. Other notable kinds of people.
ME: Do they not want the bad press that would come out of a conflict?
THEM: You'd have to ask them that.
ME: Do you think they should have stepped in here?
THEM: It's tricky, because in this case, there weren't twenty other actors being affected by it, so I don't know if they looked at it as--you know, I'm not going to speculate. And to be honest, I'm not sure them stepping in would have done any good. This is not a person who is, uh, concerned with what people say about them. They've reached a point where they're going to do what they want and if you don't like it, they'll walk. That puts everybody involved in a really bad position, but you're not always able to know that that's how someone's going to be until it's too late.
ME: But in this case, did you suspect it?
THEM: I...I would have preferred going with someone who had a little more, uh, stage credentials. Honestly, before I even--before we ever had problems--I did not think it was wise to give a role of, uh, a certain magnitude, to someone with limited stage experience.
ME: Is there anything you think we can learn from all this so it's not just a bunch of war stories?
THEM: We talked earlier about who needs protection and who doesn't. I think it's true that actors--most actors working on a show--they're vulnerable to being mistreated, and that's why we have certain rules in place. I think that when you're talking about actors or performers at a certain level, and they're able to command a certain salary and have a position of, uh, importance, within the production, the rules need to shift a little bit, and we need to make sure they're not in a position to, uh, mistreat others. I think most of them would be fine with that. That's why they get paid the big bucks. And they know that some of their colleagues need to be kept in check.
ME: Does this kind of thing sour you from doing continuing to do theater?
THEM: No. It should, but it doesn't. It--It makes me think a little bit harder about what sort of projects I involve myself in, but I'm lucky in that, I can make those choices. Some people have to take what they can get. And I don't think it's a theater culture. I think it's the culture. The culture of the world is a celebrity culture. So if you stop doing theater, you're still going to see this kind of thing going on. Whether you think it directly impacts you or not, it does. In the theater, we're lucky in that we have protocol, but you have to be willing to follow the protocol.
ME: Sounds like what we would say to Congress.
THEM: (Laughs.) Yes. The rules are there, but you have to enforce them. And the minute you signal to somebody with power that you are willing to compromise on that? You're done. You're all done.
Them has worked on numerous productions over the course of their career, including some that may or may not have featured famous people.
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