Ever since I started doing these interviews, there's one story of my own that's been on my mind. It involves a theater I worked at shortly after college. It was a one-and-done experience that stuck with me for awhile, because while the job was out-of-state, I stayed friends with a few of the people in that community. When I started posting about people quitting theater, a few of them reached out to me to discuss their own reasons for doing so. After the posts about the Wolf, one of them messaged me to say that their community had their own version of the Wolf, although in this case, it was a group of people that self-identified as The Dream Team. I knew all about them, because one was my director all those years ago, and I caught a few glimpses of the behavior that was already becoming standard practice at that point. I was wondering if anybody would be willing to talk to me--even anonymously--about the Dream Team.
Yesterday afternoon, someone did.
This is the interview:
ME: So we met each other--has it been twelve years?
THEM: You were--how old were you?
ME: I was--I turned twenty-three that summer. So twelve years ago, yeah.
THEM: That was sort of--(Laughs)--the beginning of, uh, a lot of what's been happening around here. It's good you got out when you did.
ME: Well, I just sort of dropped in, and--
THEM: Yeah, but they wanted you to hang around. They were excited about you.
ME: I just had a bad feeling about the whole thing. And I would have had to move--that wasn't something I was going to do at that time. I'm still not keen on the idea.
THEM: (Laughs.) You like where you are.
ME: It's more like 'I hate change.'
THEM: Ohhhhhh, I get that. Believe me, I get that.
ME: How long have you been doing theater in your community?
THEM: So if you were--that was 2007? I moved to _______ in 2004.
ME: And when did the Dream Team first begin to form?
THEM: It wasn't that show with you, but there was a show after that where they all worked together--all of them--
ME: And to be clear, who is the Dream Team?
THEM: So the Dream Team is a director and a choreographer--who are married to each other--a music director, and several actors, who refer to themselves as--they labeled themselves the Dream Team. And they, uh--It's hard to find a show in ______ that doesn't involve at least one of them.
ME: Even though they primarily work on musicals?
THEM: That's the mistake people make though. It started with musicals, and that's still definitely they're, uh--The thing they're most known for. When they do musicals, that's their chance to all work together, so I think they're always going back to that, but the, uh, the director, he works a lot in this area. The choreographer runs a dance company here that's very popular. It's considered the, uh, like, number one dance company in ______. Then you have all the actors. It's very--They're all over the place. You can't get away from them.
ME: At first, just from being an outsider looking at your community on social media, after having worked there, it seemed like they were a clique. Granted, an obnoxious clique, but just a clique.
THEM: It started that way, and then it became something a little more...damaging.
ME: How so?
THEM: Uh, I mean, cliques in theater are damaging, I think. I think to say that, like, a clique is harmless is--
ME: Oh, I agree with you. I was just wondering about actions they may have--
THEM: Yeah, no, I wasn't faulting you, it's just--I think that's how this got so out-of-hand. It started out as cute. They were calling themselves the Dream Team. They had t-shirts made.
ME: I saw that.
THEM: That was, uh, @#$%-ing stupid, but whatever. And then it just got darker and darker.
ME: So what happened first?
THEM: First was that someone quit a show that they were all working on, and they just--I mean, they were nuclear on this person. All these posts on social media, lots of spreading rumors--
ME: Just for quitting the show?
THEM: Quitting because of their behavior and, uh, this person made it clear that was why.
ME: Got it. Okay.
THEM: Um--
ME: And we should say, these are all adults.
THEM: Allegedly, yes. They are.
ME: What happened after they went after that one person?
THEM: Nobody wanted to go anywhere near them. They were, uh, you know, to keep using the nuclear thing--they were radioactive.
ME: Because if you worked with them, you'd be declaring war on the Dream Team.
THEM: Yes. That's how they--they made it clear that that's how they felt about it.
ME: And people went along with it?
THEM: People do not want to rock the boat around here. Nobody has time to be dealing with all that bull**** so even though I think people felt they were wrong and that this person had every right to walk away from the project they were doing because of that behavior, nobody wanted to get involved. And that grew it even more, because, um, as you know, when you don't put a stop to something early on, it grows bigger and bigger, and so this 'I don't want to get involved' problem becomes 'Now I have to get involved, but the problem is ten times bigger now.'
ME: Right.
THEM: That's what happened to me.
ME: You were staying out of it, and then you got roped into it.
THEM: Yes.
ME: How?
THEM: I was dating someone in the, uh, group. We dated--very briefly. While we were dating, I was, uh--I got the feeling I was being indoctrinated. That I was--going to end up becoming a part of the group. Of the Dream Team. And, uh--things didn't work out. And when that happened, I, uh, it got very bad.
ME: If it was amicable between you and this other person, how did it--
THEM: Well, because, I had been around them, you know? I had been--I overheard a lot of things. A lot of them talking about, uh, other people. Talking s***, you know? I had heard things. And I know I sound like a crazy person now?
ME: Well, I know you. I've known you for years. I saw this all go down--
THEM: Yeah, because it all went so public--
ME: The director--the one I worked with--cast you in a show--
THEM: Cast me in a show back when I was dating the person I was dating--the actor--one of them--and when we broke up, I was fired from the show.
ME: On what grounds?
THEM: It was--I have to say--They were very transparent. They said they didn't think it would be a good idea for us to work together, because it would be uncomfortable.
ME: And what did you say to that?
THEM: I said I was a professional and that I would have no problem with working with, um, the person I had been seeing. That it would be fine.
ME: What happened then?
THEM: I was told that the decision had already been made.
ME: So that was it?
THEM: Well, no, I contacted the theater. I mean, they don't run this theater that the show was being done at. They were just the director. I contacted the theater and said--Are you aware that this is happening? And they said--Yes, we are, and we're, uh, we're honoring the director's wishes in this case, and we wish you the best.
ME: Did you push back after that?
THEM: No. I--I know better than to do that.
ME: Was that when you decided to take a break?
THEM: I did a few shows after that, but, um, it was this feeling of--you know, when you have that many people in one place creating an atmosphere of--You're not welcome. It's hard enough to do theater and deal with those feelings of--I'm not good enough. I don't deserve to be here. I don't deserve to be doing this. It's hard enough. To walk into auditions--to do all that. I'm not this fearless person. So it was hard and then to have that extra part of it--making it harder--that just--I couldn't do that. I couldn't--I didn't have that fight in me.
ME: I've heard that from people before in these interviews and in these situations.
THEM: People say--Why don't you work somewhere else? But I had--I had been working here for years. I built a career here. I was a working actor. And to--just start over. You know, I'm not nineteen anymore. That was--that was really something I--I didn't feel I could do.
ME: And you'd have to go pretty far.
THEM: Yes. It just wasn't--it wasn't something I could do.
ME: Are people in the Dream Team still going after people online?
THEM: All the time. And it's all projection.
ME: What do you mean by that?
THEM: They'll always say--Remove negative people from your life. Support each other. Support the community. Positive vibes.
ME: That's how you know they're a bunch of gossiping, negative a**holes.
THEM: (Laughs.) Anytime you see that--
ME: This group that supports each other and loves each other--
THEM: Bunch of #$%-ing jackals.
ME: Run.
THEM: Run. You got it.
ME: I saw one--one post from an actor--it made me sick to my stomach, because I think, and you can tell me if I'm wrong--was it about a high school student?
THEM: Yes, so--one of the actors lost a role at this theater--not one of the ones the director was working at--It's actually a nice theater. It hasn't been, uh, fully infiltrated yet, because it's still a pretty new company, but, uh, they were doing this show, and one of the actors on the Dream Team wanted the lead, and uh, I'm not trying to be ageist here, but, um--They were too old to play that role. By a lot. And, uh, it went to a high school student, which made sense, and they all proceeded--not just that actor, but all of them--to start insulting her online.
ME: Based on what?
THEM: That she's not right for the role. That favoritism was in play, because the music director works at her school--
ME: So they're against favoritism--
THEM: When it doesn't work in their favor. Yes--projection. Like I said.
ME: Does this girl know what they're doing?
THEM: Oh yeah, and uh, I give her credit, she's pretty tough. Or she seems that way. Figures the person they messed with and--it's the wrong person--and it happens to be a sixteen-year-old girl.
ME: Sixteen-year-old girls will eat your face off.
THEM: She's been firing back at them, but the whole thing is--I mean, it just makes our community look so stupid. And so petty. We had a community barbecue--this thing we do everywhere, a bunch of the theaters go--and the Dream Team always shows up late, they're usually drunk, they make a big scene--and now people just don't even want to go.
ME: Instead of just telling them off?
THEM: But we don't--Okay, do you have leaders in your community? Like, people who are considered--who could address an entire community?
ME: Uh--Where people would listen and not be like 'Who do they think they are?' Not really.
THEM: Yeah, so, that's our problem. It's--Who's going to say something to these people and make them listen and feels strong enough to do that? I don't think we have anyone. That's why I said I would talk to you. Because, I think--once this comes out, we can start--it'll start a conversation about it, I hope.
ME: Those conversations haven't already been happening?
THEM: Not like this. Not in a way like this, no.
ME: You're speaking anonymously, but--I think people are going to be able to figure out who you are from--
THEM: That's fine. I'm prepared for that. This really needs to--I do see people quitting over this. Over these people and their behavior. You've talked to those people as well.
ME: I have.
THEM: What was it like when you worked with ______ as a director?
ME: Uh, he only got in my face once, but he did get in my face.
THEM: He did?
ME: Yup.
THEM: Did you tell me--Was this on opening night?
ME: Yup, I, uh--They were doing an opening night prayer. And, uh, I don't mind prayer. Prayer is great. I pray for people. I'm an atheist, but I do pray for people and for things. But this prayer was very, uh, not inclusive. It was very Jesus-driven. And I thought--I might have shut my mouth about it, because I was pretty young, but the person I was sharing a dressing room with was Jewish, and so she was like--
THEM: Oh, _______. I love her.
ME: She's awesome, right?
THEM: She's great.
ME: So, she's like--I'm not praying with them. And she thought the whole thing--like, having that be this company-wide pre-show thing we did--was inappropriate.
THEM: It is.
ME: In that form, yeah, and so, uh, she said 'Kev, I'm not going.' And I could tell she felt weird about it, so I said 'I'm not going either.' I stayed with her. And we didn't make a big deal out of it. We just skipped the prayer. But the prayer was the whole pre-show pep rally that happens. And I--remember the director coming to the dressing room--right afterwards--and screaming at the two of us about how disrespectful we were. And how we had disrespected the cast and the crew--
THEM: He didn't think that maybe you two just weren't Christian?
ME: I honestly don't think he cared. He was howling. You could hear him for miles.
THEM: Wow.
ME: And at one point he looked right at me and said 'I can make sure you never work again anywhere, you know. I have friends. I know people.' Something like that.
THEM: You must have been--What did you do?
ME: Well, that wasn't the first time someone told me they were going to make sure I never worked again.
THEM: (Laughs.) Wasn't the first--
ME: Wasn't the last. Won't be the last. Uh, but I finished the show--he never spoke to me again, the director--neither did the choreographer or the music director.
THEM: They closed ranks.
ME: Me and _______. We were on our own. And that was fine. Some people in the cast checked on us to see if we were okay, and uh, that was that.
THEM: And then you took off.
ME: I left town.
THEM: And now you're back.
ME: Well, I'm not going back, but--
THEM: (Laughs.) I wish you would. I think if anybody can do something about them--
ME: You're doing something about them right now.
THEM: Thank you.
ME: How do you feel?
THEM: Good, but nervous.
ME: We just need to hire a bunch of sixteen-year-old's to protect us.
THEM: From the fallout, you mean?
ME: Yeah.
THEM: We're going to need a lot more than that once they read this.
ME: If there were no more Dream Team, would you consider doing theater again?
THEM: Yes.
ME: That fast?
THEM: Uh--I hate to admit that they're the reason I had to leave, but, if they weren't around, I would feel more confident about saying, uh--Yeah, I'll give it another try. I would be willing to do that.
ME: Well, now I really want to take them down.
THEM: (Laughs.) I gave you some motivation.
ME: Yeah, I didn't really care before, but now--
THEM: Here we go.
Them is a theater artist, teacher, and dog lover. They've known Kevin for over ten years.
Yesterday afternoon, someone did.
This is the interview:
ME: So we met each other--has it been twelve years?
THEM: You were--how old were you?
ME: I was--I turned twenty-three that summer. So twelve years ago, yeah.
THEM: That was sort of--(Laughs)--the beginning of, uh, a lot of what's been happening around here. It's good you got out when you did.
ME: Well, I just sort of dropped in, and--
THEM: Yeah, but they wanted you to hang around. They were excited about you.
ME: I just had a bad feeling about the whole thing. And I would have had to move--that wasn't something I was going to do at that time. I'm still not keen on the idea.
THEM: (Laughs.) You like where you are.
ME: It's more like 'I hate change.'
THEM: Ohhhhhh, I get that. Believe me, I get that.
ME: How long have you been doing theater in your community?
THEM: So if you were--that was 2007? I moved to _______ in 2004.
ME: And when did the Dream Team first begin to form?
THEM: It wasn't that show with you, but there was a show after that where they all worked together--all of them--
ME: And to be clear, who is the Dream Team?
THEM: So the Dream Team is a director and a choreographer--who are married to each other--a music director, and several actors, who refer to themselves as--they labeled themselves the Dream Team. And they, uh--It's hard to find a show in ______ that doesn't involve at least one of them.
ME: Even though they primarily work on musicals?
THEM: That's the mistake people make though. It started with musicals, and that's still definitely they're, uh--The thing they're most known for. When they do musicals, that's their chance to all work together, so I think they're always going back to that, but the, uh, the director, he works a lot in this area. The choreographer runs a dance company here that's very popular. It's considered the, uh, like, number one dance company in ______. Then you have all the actors. It's very--They're all over the place. You can't get away from them.
ME: At first, just from being an outsider looking at your community on social media, after having worked there, it seemed like they were a clique. Granted, an obnoxious clique, but just a clique.
THEM: It started that way, and then it became something a little more...damaging.
ME: How so?
THEM: Uh, I mean, cliques in theater are damaging, I think. I think to say that, like, a clique is harmless is--
ME: Oh, I agree with you. I was just wondering about actions they may have--
THEM: Yeah, no, I wasn't faulting you, it's just--I think that's how this got so out-of-hand. It started out as cute. They were calling themselves the Dream Team. They had t-shirts made.
ME: I saw that.
THEM: That was, uh, @#$%-ing stupid, but whatever. And then it just got darker and darker.
ME: So what happened first?
THEM: First was that someone quit a show that they were all working on, and they just--I mean, they were nuclear on this person. All these posts on social media, lots of spreading rumors--
ME: Just for quitting the show?
THEM: Quitting because of their behavior and, uh, this person made it clear that was why.
ME: Got it. Okay.
THEM: Um--
ME: And we should say, these are all adults.
THEM: Allegedly, yes. They are.
ME: What happened after they went after that one person?
THEM: Nobody wanted to go anywhere near them. They were, uh, you know, to keep using the nuclear thing--they were radioactive.
ME: Because if you worked with them, you'd be declaring war on the Dream Team.
THEM: Yes. That's how they--they made it clear that that's how they felt about it.
ME: And people went along with it?
THEM: People do not want to rock the boat around here. Nobody has time to be dealing with all that bull**** so even though I think people felt they were wrong and that this person had every right to walk away from the project they were doing because of that behavior, nobody wanted to get involved. And that grew it even more, because, um, as you know, when you don't put a stop to something early on, it grows bigger and bigger, and so this 'I don't want to get involved' problem becomes 'Now I have to get involved, but the problem is ten times bigger now.'
ME: Right.
THEM: That's what happened to me.
ME: You were staying out of it, and then you got roped into it.
THEM: Yes.
ME: How?
THEM: I was dating someone in the, uh, group. We dated--very briefly. While we were dating, I was, uh--I got the feeling I was being indoctrinated. That I was--going to end up becoming a part of the group. Of the Dream Team. And, uh--things didn't work out. And when that happened, I, uh, it got very bad.
ME: If it was amicable between you and this other person, how did it--
THEM: Well, because, I had been around them, you know? I had been--I overheard a lot of things. A lot of them talking about, uh, other people. Talking s***, you know? I had heard things. And I know I sound like a crazy person now?
ME: Well, I know you. I've known you for years. I saw this all go down--
THEM: Yeah, because it all went so public--
ME: The director--the one I worked with--cast you in a show--
THEM: Cast me in a show back when I was dating the person I was dating--the actor--one of them--and when we broke up, I was fired from the show.
ME: On what grounds?
THEM: It was--I have to say--They were very transparent. They said they didn't think it would be a good idea for us to work together, because it would be uncomfortable.
ME: And what did you say to that?
THEM: I said I was a professional and that I would have no problem with working with, um, the person I had been seeing. That it would be fine.
ME: What happened then?
THEM: I was told that the decision had already been made.
ME: So that was it?
THEM: Well, no, I contacted the theater. I mean, they don't run this theater that the show was being done at. They were just the director. I contacted the theater and said--Are you aware that this is happening? And they said--Yes, we are, and we're, uh, we're honoring the director's wishes in this case, and we wish you the best.
ME: Did you push back after that?
THEM: No. I--I know better than to do that.
ME: Was that when you decided to take a break?
THEM: I did a few shows after that, but, um, it was this feeling of--you know, when you have that many people in one place creating an atmosphere of--You're not welcome. It's hard enough to do theater and deal with those feelings of--I'm not good enough. I don't deserve to be here. I don't deserve to be doing this. It's hard enough. To walk into auditions--to do all that. I'm not this fearless person. So it was hard and then to have that extra part of it--making it harder--that just--I couldn't do that. I couldn't--I didn't have that fight in me.
ME: I've heard that from people before in these interviews and in these situations.
THEM: People say--Why don't you work somewhere else? But I had--I had been working here for years. I built a career here. I was a working actor. And to--just start over. You know, I'm not nineteen anymore. That was--that was really something I--I didn't feel I could do.
ME: And you'd have to go pretty far.
THEM: Yes. It just wasn't--it wasn't something I could do.
ME: Are people in the Dream Team still going after people online?
THEM: All the time. And it's all projection.
ME: What do you mean by that?
THEM: They'll always say--Remove negative people from your life. Support each other. Support the community. Positive vibes.
ME: That's how you know they're a bunch of gossiping, negative a**holes.
THEM: (Laughs.) Anytime you see that--
ME: This group that supports each other and loves each other--
THEM: Bunch of #$%-ing jackals.
ME: Run.
THEM: Run. You got it.
ME: I saw one--one post from an actor--it made me sick to my stomach, because I think, and you can tell me if I'm wrong--was it about a high school student?
THEM: Yes, so--one of the actors lost a role at this theater--not one of the ones the director was working at--It's actually a nice theater. It hasn't been, uh, fully infiltrated yet, because it's still a pretty new company, but, uh, they were doing this show, and one of the actors on the Dream Team wanted the lead, and uh, I'm not trying to be ageist here, but, um--They were too old to play that role. By a lot. And, uh, it went to a high school student, which made sense, and they all proceeded--not just that actor, but all of them--to start insulting her online.
ME: Based on what?
THEM: That she's not right for the role. That favoritism was in play, because the music director works at her school--
ME: So they're against favoritism--
THEM: When it doesn't work in their favor. Yes--projection. Like I said.
ME: Does this girl know what they're doing?
THEM: Oh yeah, and uh, I give her credit, she's pretty tough. Or she seems that way. Figures the person they messed with and--it's the wrong person--and it happens to be a sixteen-year-old girl.
ME: Sixteen-year-old girls will eat your face off.
THEM: She's been firing back at them, but the whole thing is--I mean, it just makes our community look so stupid. And so petty. We had a community barbecue--this thing we do everywhere, a bunch of the theaters go--and the Dream Team always shows up late, they're usually drunk, they make a big scene--and now people just don't even want to go.
ME: Instead of just telling them off?
THEM: But we don't--Okay, do you have leaders in your community? Like, people who are considered--who could address an entire community?
ME: Uh--Where people would listen and not be like 'Who do they think they are?' Not really.
THEM: Yeah, so, that's our problem. It's--Who's going to say something to these people and make them listen and feels strong enough to do that? I don't think we have anyone. That's why I said I would talk to you. Because, I think--once this comes out, we can start--it'll start a conversation about it, I hope.
ME: Those conversations haven't already been happening?
THEM: Not like this. Not in a way like this, no.
ME: You're speaking anonymously, but--I think people are going to be able to figure out who you are from--
THEM: That's fine. I'm prepared for that. This really needs to--I do see people quitting over this. Over these people and their behavior. You've talked to those people as well.
ME: I have.
THEM: What was it like when you worked with ______ as a director?
ME: Uh, he only got in my face once, but he did get in my face.
THEM: He did?
ME: Yup.
THEM: Did you tell me--Was this on opening night?
ME: Yup, I, uh--They were doing an opening night prayer. And, uh, I don't mind prayer. Prayer is great. I pray for people. I'm an atheist, but I do pray for people and for things. But this prayer was very, uh, not inclusive. It was very Jesus-driven. And I thought--I might have shut my mouth about it, because I was pretty young, but the person I was sharing a dressing room with was Jewish, and so she was like--
THEM: Oh, _______. I love her.
ME: She's awesome, right?
THEM: She's great.
ME: So, she's like--I'm not praying with them. And she thought the whole thing--like, having that be this company-wide pre-show thing we did--was inappropriate.
THEM: It is.
ME: In that form, yeah, and so, uh, she said 'Kev, I'm not going.' And I could tell she felt weird about it, so I said 'I'm not going either.' I stayed with her. And we didn't make a big deal out of it. We just skipped the prayer. But the prayer was the whole pre-show pep rally that happens. And I--remember the director coming to the dressing room--right afterwards--and screaming at the two of us about how disrespectful we were. And how we had disrespected the cast and the crew--
THEM: He didn't think that maybe you two just weren't Christian?
ME: I honestly don't think he cared. He was howling. You could hear him for miles.
THEM: Wow.
ME: And at one point he looked right at me and said 'I can make sure you never work again anywhere, you know. I have friends. I know people.' Something like that.
THEM: You must have been--What did you do?
ME: Well, that wasn't the first time someone told me they were going to make sure I never worked again.
THEM: (Laughs.) Wasn't the first--
ME: Wasn't the last. Won't be the last. Uh, but I finished the show--he never spoke to me again, the director--neither did the choreographer or the music director.
THEM: They closed ranks.
ME: Me and _______. We were on our own. And that was fine. Some people in the cast checked on us to see if we were okay, and uh, that was that.
THEM: And then you took off.
ME: I left town.
THEM: And now you're back.
ME: Well, I'm not going back, but--
THEM: (Laughs.) I wish you would. I think if anybody can do something about them--
ME: You're doing something about them right now.
THEM: Thank you.
ME: How do you feel?
THEM: Good, but nervous.
ME: We just need to hire a bunch of sixteen-year-old's to protect us.
THEM: From the fallout, you mean?
ME: Yeah.
THEM: We're going to need a lot more than that once they read this.
ME: If there were no more Dream Team, would you consider doing theater again?
THEM: Yes.
ME: That fast?
THEM: Uh--I hate to admit that they're the reason I had to leave, but, if they weren't around, I would feel more confident about saying, uh--Yeah, I'll give it another try. I would be willing to do that.
ME: Well, now I really want to take them down.
THEM: (Laughs.) I gave you some motivation.
ME: Yeah, I didn't really care before, but now--
THEM: Here we go.
Them is a theater artist, teacher, and dog lover. They've known Kevin for over ten years.
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