For the last interview of 2019, I spoke with a friend who's decided to take a break from theater in 2020--the same thing I thought about doing when I first started this series.
Them is an inspiring actor and director, and someone I'm going to miss having in the field for as long as they're on hiatus.
Here's the interview:
ME: So you're really going to do it?
THEM: I'm really going to do it.
ME: You were the first person to message me when I said I wanted a break.
THEM: Yeah, and you're still going, you stupid @#$%.
ME: (Laughs.) I have some more to say, I guess.
THEM: What a surprise.
ME: (Laughs.) See, I'm going to miss this sense of humor.
THEM: Me ripping you apart all the time.
ME: I need that.
THEM: You can get that anywhere. Lots of people love ripping to shreds.
ME: I'll be all right. How are you going to be?
THEM: I'm...I've been reading all your interviews and in the ones where people talk about quitting, they're always talking about something they've lost. That's how I feel. I feel like I've lost the--the drive? The drive to do it? I attribute some of it to aging and other things. I just don't want it in my life right now.
ME: I talked about it as though it were a spouse or a partner that you're going through a bumpy patch with and--
THEM: That's how it feels. I need a break from theater the way--we're just not on the same page I don't think.
ME: What's the page theater is on and what page are you on?
THEM: Theater right now--to me--where I am--is very, uh, it's about people wanting to--Wanting theater to be looked at as this place where you can have the same kind of life--a good life--that you can have anywhere else. That you can have the nice house and the kids and the nice car and do theater--and that's not what--I really thought of it as a calling, you know? Part of that is--it's not going to be easy. You may never make a dime on it. You may spend all your money doing it. Pursuing it. It might keep you in rags all your life, Kevin, but you have to do it. It's not a choice you have. Now, people are fighting that idea of it now, because we don't want people thinking that artists have no value, but I think, in fighting it, we've created this entitlement that--Well, we SHOULD be making money. We SHOULD be getting titles and awards and this should be a CAREER. It can be a career, but it needs to be a calling first. That's what I believe. Not to sound all--but I felt I had a calling to do this, and now I'm someone who--I was always around people who felt the same. That they had a calling. Now all I see are people who want careers and they're not even listening to see if it's calling to them. They're not listening to themselves. They're worried about what role they're going to get and who they're going to work with and what other people think of their CAREER. They only want to be good at what they do if it helps the CAREER. So, if something comes along, and it's going to help grow them as an artist, but it's not going to help the CAREER, they don't want it. If it means they're going to fall on their face, they don't want to do it--even if it'll help them grow.
ME: But do you feel like saying 'I'm quitting because of other people is--'
THEM: Kevin, this is a community. You can't do theater alone. It's one of the last things on earth you can't do by yourself. If you're looking at the community, and you're saying--This isn't for me--that's it. You need to go away and come back when you like the look of it again or when you think you can form a community that's more to your liking. I don't have it in me to do that right now. I've done that a few times. I hope someday somebody will come looking for me and say 'Hey we got this thing going and we want you to be apart of it.' I would love that.
ME: If it's people with a calling, you'd want a monk to come get you.
THEM: Why not? We could do Jesus Christ Superstar.
ME: There are no monks in Jesus Christ Superstar, you big idiot.
THEM: I didn't say there were, you @#$%-ing @#$%.
ME: (Laughs.) I think you've really summed up a lot of what I was feeling earlier this year as well.
THEM: How did you decide to talk about it?
ME: About wanting to quit?
THEM: Yes.
ME: Uh, I--at the end of last year--so 2018--I was just...I was in a rough spot with--I get really down on myself. I compare myself to other people a lot. I'm very jealous. Very, very jealous--of everybody. I beat myself up a lot. I have a really awful temper. I have--I have an addictive personality which manifests itself into this, uh, into behaviors that are--not great. Um, I--it just felt like my life was running me and I wasn't running my life. Annnnnd I had been in therapy for awhile, but there was this resistance to really taking the bull by the horns in terms of theater and what its relationship to me was and, uh--I started to say 'Okay, I'm getting things in order personally--I know what I need to work on there--I'm still jealous and I still have a temper and I'm still dealing with this anxiety and social anxiety that I didn't even want to acknowledge for most of my life, but all of that exists in this part of my life--theater--and I haven't touched any of it in that arena.'
THEM: Why?
ME: Because I knew it was going to kick my ass. And I thought--it would be easier just to quit. Because I don't know if I have the work in me right now to deal with it. I'd rather work on everything else and try to become a better friend and a better, uh...a better son, a better brother, I'm an uncle now. I've let a lot of people down in my life over and over again and I wanted to say--'No more of that.' And part of that was because I gave everything I had to theater. I put everything into the writing. Into trying to be an actor. Into trying to have people pay attention to me. And finally I just said, 'I am never going to be twenty again and I'm not putting in what I can't take back out.' And that's not how theater works, so--I sat down and I said, 'If I was going to quit, what would I want to do before I quit? What would I want to say?'
THEM: Who do I want to take down?
ME: That was never--(Laughs.)--That was just a bonus.
THEM: So you wrote it all down?
ME: I did it the Kevin Broccoli control freak way--I made a Google Doc. I said, 'One thing a month.' One thing a month that I wanted to do--in terms of theater--what I needed to get out of my system before I left.
THEM: Like the World Record?
ME: The World Record. The Man About Town Column.
THEM: That's not a theater thing.
ME: No, but it's a writing thing, and it all kind of--
THEM: I understand.
ME: Hedwig. Carrying a show like that. A musical. Which is something I never thought I could do. I just said, 'If I'm gonna go, how do I wanna go?'
THEM: Did you do everything on the list?
ME: Most of it.
THEM: That's why you're still here. You have more to do.
ME: Then I walk into the ocean.
THEM: (Laughs.) Bitch, I'll push you off a boat. You don't need to walk.
ME: I have one or two more things I have to get done and then--I'll see how I feel.
THEM: You're like Elton John on the farewell tour.
ME: Gurl, I'm Cher. Get it right.
THEM: (Laughs.) You had a good year.
ME: I'm hanging in there. It's hard because nowadays, when you size up time, there's the personal and the global and globally--
THEM: There hasn't been a good global year in all of human history so you have to take it person-by-person.
ME: People are doing the decade list and that's--
THEM: It was a bad decade.
ME: It wasn't SO bad until we got to 2016.
THEM: It was bad before that.
ME: But when we lost Prince--
THEM: If you group any ten years together--
ME: What's your proudest theatrical memory of the past--
THEM: #$% you.
ME: (Laughs.) You don't have to answer that.
THEM: I got to direct my sister in that show I did two years ago. That was pretty cool. I liked that.
ME: That was nice.
THEM: Yeah.
ME: What was it like when you finished the last project you were working on knowing it was going to be the last project for awhile?
THEM: Nobody else knew but me. That was the funny part. Everybody was just packing up, and it's--Are we going to go out? No, I'm tired. Okay. See you when I see you. I put my stuff in my backpack and I just walked out, sat in my car, listened to some music. Just let myself...
ME: Are you going to talk about it?
THEM: That moment or--
ME: The break.
THEM: I feel like if I did that I'd be just like any other dark-haired narcissist looking for attention--
ME: (Laughs.) Hang on, I'll get you a blog.
THEM: I can't believe you still have a blog. Please knock that off.
ME: I'll switch everything over to TikTok.
THEM: What's that?
ME: I have no idea.
THEM: I don't want to make a big deal out of it. People don't notice when you're gone and that's--that's how it should be. What I said earlier--I'm not trying to insult people who are pursuing careers or who look at this as a career thing for them. They're working hard. Let them work. It's not for me, but they don't care that it's not for me, and they shouldn't. When you're in a race and you sprain your ankle, they don't stop the race. There's a time to run and a time to cheer, and it's my time to cheer.
ME: We gotta get you some Pom-Pom's.
THEM: And a skirt. Get me a really hot skirt.
Them is an actor, director, and a brand new cheerleader.
Them is an inspiring actor and director, and someone I'm going to miss having in the field for as long as they're on hiatus.
Here's the interview:
ME: So you're really going to do it?
THEM: I'm really going to do it.
ME: You were the first person to message me when I said I wanted a break.
THEM: Yeah, and you're still going, you stupid @#$%.
ME: (Laughs.) I have some more to say, I guess.
THEM: What a surprise.
ME: (Laughs.) See, I'm going to miss this sense of humor.
THEM: Me ripping you apart all the time.
ME: I need that.
THEM: You can get that anywhere. Lots of people love ripping to shreds.
ME: I'll be all right. How are you going to be?
THEM: I'm...I've been reading all your interviews and in the ones where people talk about quitting, they're always talking about something they've lost. That's how I feel. I feel like I've lost the--the drive? The drive to do it? I attribute some of it to aging and other things. I just don't want it in my life right now.
ME: I talked about it as though it were a spouse or a partner that you're going through a bumpy patch with and--
THEM: That's how it feels. I need a break from theater the way--we're just not on the same page I don't think.
ME: What's the page theater is on and what page are you on?
THEM: Theater right now--to me--where I am--is very, uh, it's about people wanting to--Wanting theater to be looked at as this place where you can have the same kind of life--a good life--that you can have anywhere else. That you can have the nice house and the kids and the nice car and do theater--and that's not what--I really thought of it as a calling, you know? Part of that is--it's not going to be easy. You may never make a dime on it. You may spend all your money doing it. Pursuing it. It might keep you in rags all your life, Kevin, but you have to do it. It's not a choice you have. Now, people are fighting that idea of it now, because we don't want people thinking that artists have no value, but I think, in fighting it, we've created this entitlement that--Well, we SHOULD be making money. We SHOULD be getting titles and awards and this should be a CAREER. It can be a career, but it needs to be a calling first. That's what I believe. Not to sound all--but I felt I had a calling to do this, and now I'm someone who--I was always around people who felt the same. That they had a calling. Now all I see are people who want careers and they're not even listening to see if it's calling to them. They're not listening to themselves. They're worried about what role they're going to get and who they're going to work with and what other people think of their CAREER. They only want to be good at what they do if it helps the CAREER. So, if something comes along, and it's going to help grow them as an artist, but it's not going to help the CAREER, they don't want it. If it means they're going to fall on their face, they don't want to do it--even if it'll help them grow.
ME: But do you feel like saying 'I'm quitting because of other people is--'
THEM: Kevin, this is a community. You can't do theater alone. It's one of the last things on earth you can't do by yourself. If you're looking at the community, and you're saying--This isn't for me--that's it. You need to go away and come back when you like the look of it again or when you think you can form a community that's more to your liking. I don't have it in me to do that right now. I've done that a few times. I hope someday somebody will come looking for me and say 'Hey we got this thing going and we want you to be apart of it.' I would love that.
ME: If it's people with a calling, you'd want a monk to come get you.
THEM: Why not? We could do Jesus Christ Superstar.
ME: There are no monks in Jesus Christ Superstar, you big idiot.
THEM: I didn't say there were, you @#$%-ing @#$%.
ME: (Laughs.) I think you've really summed up a lot of what I was feeling earlier this year as well.
THEM: How did you decide to talk about it?
ME: About wanting to quit?
THEM: Yes.
ME: Uh, I--at the end of last year--so 2018--I was just...I was in a rough spot with--I get really down on myself. I compare myself to other people a lot. I'm very jealous. Very, very jealous--of everybody. I beat myself up a lot. I have a really awful temper. I have--I have an addictive personality which manifests itself into this, uh, into behaviors that are--not great. Um, I--it just felt like my life was running me and I wasn't running my life. Annnnnd I had been in therapy for awhile, but there was this resistance to really taking the bull by the horns in terms of theater and what its relationship to me was and, uh--I started to say 'Okay, I'm getting things in order personally--I know what I need to work on there--I'm still jealous and I still have a temper and I'm still dealing with this anxiety and social anxiety that I didn't even want to acknowledge for most of my life, but all of that exists in this part of my life--theater--and I haven't touched any of it in that arena.'
THEM: Why?
ME: Because I knew it was going to kick my ass. And I thought--it would be easier just to quit. Because I don't know if I have the work in me right now to deal with it. I'd rather work on everything else and try to become a better friend and a better, uh...a better son, a better brother, I'm an uncle now. I've let a lot of people down in my life over and over again and I wanted to say--'No more of that.' And part of that was because I gave everything I had to theater. I put everything into the writing. Into trying to be an actor. Into trying to have people pay attention to me. And finally I just said, 'I am never going to be twenty again and I'm not putting in what I can't take back out.' And that's not how theater works, so--I sat down and I said, 'If I was going to quit, what would I want to do before I quit? What would I want to say?'
THEM: Who do I want to take down?
ME: That was never--(Laughs.)--That was just a bonus.
THEM: So you wrote it all down?
ME: I did it the Kevin Broccoli control freak way--I made a Google Doc. I said, 'One thing a month.' One thing a month that I wanted to do--in terms of theater--what I needed to get out of my system before I left.
THEM: Like the World Record?
ME: The World Record. The Man About Town Column.
THEM: That's not a theater thing.
ME: No, but it's a writing thing, and it all kind of--
THEM: I understand.
ME: Hedwig. Carrying a show like that. A musical. Which is something I never thought I could do. I just said, 'If I'm gonna go, how do I wanna go?'
THEM: Did you do everything on the list?
ME: Most of it.
THEM: That's why you're still here. You have more to do.
ME: Then I walk into the ocean.
THEM: (Laughs.) Bitch, I'll push you off a boat. You don't need to walk.
ME: I have one or two more things I have to get done and then--I'll see how I feel.
THEM: You're like Elton John on the farewell tour.
ME: Gurl, I'm Cher. Get it right.
THEM: (Laughs.) You had a good year.
ME: I'm hanging in there. It's hard because nowadays, when you size up time, there's the personal and the global and globally--
THEM: There hasn't been a good global year in all of human history so you have to take it person-by-person.
ME: People are doing the decade list and that's--
THEM: It was a bad decade.
ME: It wasn't SO bad until we got to 2016.
THEM: It was bad before that.
ME: But when we lost Prince--
THEM: If you group any ten years together--
ME: What's your proudest theatrical memory of the past--
THEM: #$% you.
ME: (Laughs.) You don't have to answer that.
THEM: I got to direct my sister in that show I did two years ago. That was pretty cool. I liked that.
ME: That was nice.
THEM: Yeah.
ME: What was it like when you finished the last project you were working on knowing it was going to be the last project for awhile?
THEM: Nobody else knew but me. That was the funny part. Everybody was just packing up, and it's--Are we going to go out? No, I'm tired. Okay. See you when I see you. I put my stuff in my backpack and I just walked out, sat in my car, listened to some music. Just let myself...
ME: Are you going to talk about it?
THEM: That moment or--
ME: The break.
THEM: I feel like if I did that I'd be just like any other dark-haired narcissist looking for attention--
ME: (Laughs.) Hang on, I'll get you a blog.
THEM: I can't believe you still have a blog. Please knock that off.
ME: I'll switch everything over to TikTok.
THEM: What's that?
ME: I have no idea.
THEM: I don't want to make a big deal out of it. People don't notice when you're gone and that's--that's how it should be. What I said earlier--I'm not trying to insult people who are pursuing careers or who look at this as a career thing for them. They're working hard. Let them work. It's not for me, but they don't care that it's not for me, and they shouldn't. When you're in a race and you sprain your ankle, they don't stop the race. There's a time to run and a time to cheer, and it's my time to cheer.
ME: We gotta get you some Pom-Pom's.
THEM: And a skirt. Get me a really hot skirt.
Them is an actor, director, and a brand new cheerleader.
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