Theater and the Season Announcement

A few days ago, I was contacted by a friend and fellow Artistic Director (granted, of a much bigger theater) because they wanted to speak with me about what they perceived was a slight regarding a decision they'd made.

Here's the interview:

ME:  We should start this by saying that we, in fact, very good friends.

THEM:  Let's see how this goes first.

ME:  (Laughs.)  You're coming for me, aren't you?

THEM:  I just think you were being a little insensitive.

ME:  Because I cracked a joke?

THEM:  You cracked a joke at a very sensitive time.

ME:  The pandemic is going to go on for at least two years, and you think I'm going to be able to be sensitive the entire time?

THEM:  I think you need to watch what you say as someone who has a platform.

ME:  I don't have a platform.

THEM:  Kevin.

ME:  I do not think I have a platform to the extent where I share a tweet that somebody else tweeted and all of a sudden, I'm attacking you.

THEM:  But you know the position I'm in.

ME:  And I want to talk about that.

THEM:  Okay.

ME:  You announced your season last week.

THEM:  Yes.

ME:  Are you insane?

THEM:  (Laughs.)  You are such a disgusting human being.

ME:  That aside, you don't think you're doing the season you just announced, right?

THEM:  You're the one--

ME:  Come on now--

THEM:  Kevin, you're the one who said 'Plan then plan to cancel.'

ME:  Yes, and right now, you should be planning to cancel everything you have planned until October.

THEM:  Why October?  Who's saying October is going to be safe?

ME:  I'm not saying that, but we know September is not going to be safe.

THEM:  How do we know that?  Who's telling us that?

ME:  First of all, when I said 'Plan then plan to cancel' I was talking about planning a little bit far ahead and then cancelling when you get there.  Not making plans for next January.

THEM:  We don't have--You've said this--We don't have the information to tell us when we can plan.

ME:  Right, so we shouldn't be planning.  You can't plan without information.

THEM:  Kevin, with all due respect, I am not running a thirty-seat black-box.  I actually have a staff and I have financial obligations that I have to take into consideration.

ME:  So that means you can sell tickets to a show that's not going to happen?

THEM:  We don't know that--

ME:  Because forgive me and my thirty-seat black-box, sweetie, but that's called unethical.

THEM:  We have every intention of presenting what we said we would present unless we can't.

ME:  Honest question--do you think you can do the show you have scheduled in September?

THEM:  It's not scheduled until the last week of September.

ME:  And do you think you can--Wait a minute, let's be clear.  That means you need to have people rehearsing--in a room--throughout all of September.  So it's not like the first time you're putting anybody in a room is that last week of September.  You're just talking about audiences, not artists.

THEM:  If we can't do it safely, we won't do it.

ME:  But you're selling tickets to it right now.  You're selling season tickets knowing that we do have information that we are not going to get some long window of time when doing theater is going to be safe.  We're going to get good windows and bad windows.  How do you announce a season knowing that?

THEM:  Because we...Okay, I'm speaking anonymously right?

ME:  That's how it works.

THEM:  Because we cannot run a theater, financially speaking, selling individual tickets all year long, which is what we would have to do if we did not announce a season and sell season tickets.

ME:  But isn't it better to figure out a way to make that work--

THEM:  It doesn't work, Kevin.

ME:  Let me finish.  Isn't it better to figure out anything else then having to go down this road of continually refunding people, cancelling shows, and rescheduling everything for the next year?  That sounds like a nightmare.

THEM:  We're living in a nightmare.  This is a nightmare.

ME:  But you announced your season last week.  In the middle of the nightmare.  Where you're living--you haven't hit the peak yet.  You might not hit it until August, and you think you're doing a show in September?

THEM:  I--

ME:  And I'm sorry but f___ you for that black-box because I will still have my black-box in a year and you might not have your theater, and it's not just because--

THEM:  I apologize.

ME:  It is not just because of this pandemic.  Let's not talk about your business model compared to mine, because that's not something--

THEM:  What's wrong with my business model?

ME:  Your business model has you running out of money midway through your season so that you have to sell tickets to shows that are happening a year later just to keep the doors open.  That is not sustainable for very long even without a pandemic.

THEM:  Lots of theaters do that.

ME:  Lots of big theaters do that, yes.  It doesn't make it smart.

THEM:  It's how you do it.

ME:  When you have a sea change like this, one of the things that happens is that any flaws in the armor get exacerbated, right?  So would you say it's possible that certain ways of doing things at the level at which you're doing them are now being exposed?

THEM:  Yes.

ME:  Okay--

THEM:  But not expose like we're committing crimes.

ME:  Nobody's saying that.

THEM:  It is not easy to run a theater of a certain size and keep the doors open, as you say, without, uh, moving heaven and earth, honestly. I mean, that's what it takes sometimes.

ME:  Can I ask how much you make?

THEM:  Kevin.

ME:  Can I--I'm just asking.

THEM:  Kevin, stop.

ME:  Why is that a bad question?

THEM:  Because I'm not playing the Eat the Rich game with you.

ME:  I mean, I can find out how much you make if I--

THEM:  Why do you want to know how much I make?

ME:  I want to know, because last week you asked me to help organize a fundraiser for you, and if I'm asking people to donate money to you, I think I'm entitled to know how much of that money is going to your salary versus keeping the doors open.

THEM:  My salary falls under keeping the doors open.

ME:  I'm going to say something kind of wild here, but I think when we're at the other end of this tunnel we're in, you're going to have a hard time convincing people that doing what you do is worth what you're being paid.

THEM:  I didn't tell you what I'm paid.

ME:  Is it six figures?

THEM:  That's really none of your business.

ME:  Do you think--

THEM:  And to hear you devaluing what I do like that--

ME:  I'm not devaluing it, and I'm not saying you shouldn't get paid, but if you can't keep the doors open while you're collecting a six-figure salary, I'm saying people might want you to look at your salary.

THEM:  It's commensurate with what other people in my job at other theaters this size make.

ME:  I'm sure they're going to have to answer for that too at some point.

THEM:  And that's how theaters close.

ME:  Theaters close because we're asking the people at the top to evaluate whether or not they deserve to be millionaires running--

THEM:  I'm not a millionaire.

ME:  If you make six figures--and I bet you do--you've been at your job for ten years so--

THEM:  You f____-ing talk like I'm a corporate--

ME:  That is corporate.  What do you--That is a corporate salary you're making.

THEM:  You don't know what I make.

ME:  Then tell me.

THEM:  Go find out if you want.

ME:  Okay. 

THEM:  You are really f____-ing out of line.

ME:  Because you came to me with all this animosity and I've been feeling that--and so have my colleagues from other small theaters--from the big theaters as if--

THEM:  I didn't come at you with animosity.

ME:  Oh yes you did.  You came--

THEM:  That's because I have to read--I'll be honest.  Can I be honest?

ME:  Please.

THEM:  I have to read and see article after article about how small theaters are going to survive this and big theaters aren't.  I don't need to get that rubbed in by a friend posting a f___-in clever little tweet, Kevin.

ME:  I'm not writing those articles.  I wasn't wishing for you to--

THEM:  I didn't say you were, but it hurts me to see that.

ME:  Do you think it hurt the three smaller theaters in your area that closed in the last two years that your f____-ing theater's social media didn't even acknowledge them?  That you--

THEM:  Kevin--

ME:  No, let's be honest since we're being honest.  You came to me to do a fundraiser.  Did you do a fundraiser for any of those theaters when they closed to help keep them open?

THEM:  I wasn't asked.

ME:  Why should you need to be asked?  You're supposed to be--

THEM:  Nobody asked me.

ME:  You're supposed to be a leader in your community.  You don't have to let theaters close.  You can extend a hand.  You can offer to help.  It shouldn't be about kissing the ring.

THEM:  Oh please.

ME:  You think I don't know--and everyone running a small theater right now--doesn't know, that if the shoe were on the other foot, and it looked like we were going to close, you would be jumping through hoops to stop that from happening?

THEM:  You mean bigger theaters?

ME:  Yes.

THEM:  I would always help another theater if they needed it.

ME:  When have you helped another theater?  When was the last time you did something to help out another theater?

THEM:  We give out free tickets to all our press nights to other theaters--

ME:  F___ off.  Are you kidding me?

THEM:  Can I finish?

ME:  (Laughs.)  I'm gagged.  Really.  That is something.  What you just said.

THEM:  What do you want me to do, Kevin?  You want me to stand outside your f____-ing theater with a bucket in my hand like the f____-ing Red Cross collecting donations in the two free hours a day I have trying to make sure I don't have to lay off my entire staff?

ME:  I want you to have a thick enough skin to admit that getting teased about the fact that thinking you can do a show in September of this year is nuts.  It's f____-ing nuts.

THEM:  Something could change.

ME:  Yes, and then it won't be nuts, but it's nuts right now.

THEM:  But we can't wait--Kevin, we can't wait for a good window and throw together a show in a week.  Things don't work that way at this level.

ME:  Then ready?  Things might need to change--at your level then.  Because the rest of us, have been doing s___ like that for years.  For better or worse.  We've had to be flexible.  You're going to have to get flexible.  I don't know what else to tell you, but of all the things I can sympathize about with you, you having to get flexible in all areas of how you run your theater, is not one of them.

THEM:  I don't know how much room there is for flexibility.

ME:  I think you're about to find out.

THEM:  Maybe.

ME:  Let me ask you this again, anonymously, off the record--or whatever.  Do you think that show in September that you are selling tickets for right now is going to happen?

     (Silence.)

THEM:  As of right now, no.

ME:  So then should you still be selling tickets to it?  I just--I don't think this is hard.  I know that everything is shifting with this crisis, but if we just rewind to a few months ago, selling tickets to something you felt very strongly wasn't going to happen was considered the wrong thing to do.  I don't know why that would be different now.

THEM:  I think--You're not wrong.  I'll say that.  You're not wrong.

ME:  Okay.

THEM:  But it doesn't change the fact that I have to keep going the way we're going and hope for the best.

ME:  I hope for the best for you too.  I really do.  I love you very much.  You've been a great friend.

THEM:  You've been a good friend too.  I'm sorry that--I didn't know you felt so strongly about where I am and what I'm doing.

ME:  It's not about you in particular, it's about feeling like you look down on what I'm doing and think that because I'm at where I'm at I shouldn't be allowed to have opinions about how you do things, and that if I do, and you don't like those opinions--

THEM:  It's just you being jealous.

ME:  I mean, I am a little jealous.  You've got a great job.

THEM:  (Laughs.)  I don't know if you should be jealous of me right now.  I'm a little jealous of you.

ME:  I don't know if there should be jealousy at all right now.  We could all be killed by the murder hornets.

THEM:  If I can promise you that whatever money you help us raise will go directly to helping the theater and not my salary--

ME:  What does helping the theater mean though?

THEM:  It'll go towards paying other people--not me.  I promise.

ME:  We can talk more about that.

THEM:  Okay.

ME:  And how much you make.

THEM:  (Laughs.)  I love you.  You're a f____ing prick, but I love you.

ME:  I love you too.  I didn't ask--How are you?

THEM:  I've been better.

ME:  Me too.  But we'll get to better.

THEM:  Yeah.  I hope so.

Them has been an Artistic Director for the past ten years.