Theater and Reflection

Hey Everyone,

We are three interviews away from the end of this series.

Next week we have a very...unusual interview scheduled.

Then the final piece of the series--for now.

I have a big project planned for 2021, and I'm excited to tell you all about it.

Before that happens, I'm excited to share this interview with someone I've spoken to in the past. I wanted to check in with them again, because they've been working with theaters on putting together action plans regarding equity and coming back better.

I wanted to hear how that was going.

Here's the interview:

ME:  How have you been?

THEM:  Busy.

ME:  I've been keeping track.

THEM:  Not as busy as you though.

ME:  You've been way busier than me.

THEM:  You're doing this, you're doing the theater--

ME:  I'm interviewing my friends on Streamyard.

THEM:  Do you like Streamyard better than Zoom?

ME:  I do. I like it a lot more.

THEM:  I need to start using it.

ME:  You should. Even though it's not designed for meetings, I like it so much better.

THEM:  I'm going to look at that as soon as I'm done with this.

ME:  I'll keep it brief.

THEM:  (Laughs.)  No, take your time.

ME:  How has your work bringing equity to theaters been going?

THEM:  I'm the Equity Elf.

ME:  You're the Santa of Equity.

THEM:  I am tired.

ME:  I'm sure.

THEM:  I'm so tired.

ME:  Has it been harder than you thought it would be?

THEM:  No, I thought it was going to be impossible, and it's a little less than impossible.

ME:  So it's better than you thought?

THEM:  Less than impossible--I can't call that 'better than I thought.'

ME:  Right. What's been the hardest part?

THEM:  People meaning well, but not wanting to put the work in.

ME:  When you say people--

THEM:  Boards are the devil.

ME:  I say this all the time.

THEM:  Boards. Are. The. Devil.

ME:  Why is that?

THEM:  Because it can be upsetting working with Artistic Directors and Executive Directors and actors and this and this and that, but once you get all of them on the same page, then you go to the Board, and these people have the ability to shut you down right where you stand, and they really don't care if you don't like it, or you go and blast them on social media about it, because nobody knows who they are, and most of them are old rich white people who are not on social media, and they really do not care if people on Facebook are talking s*** about them.

ME:  That's very specific.

THEM:  It has been--This has happened at three different professional theaters I am currently consulting with in [Name of State] and [Name of State].

ME:  Three awful boards?

THEM:  Each one worse than the last.

ME:  What are their objections once you bring them changes you think their organizations should make?

THEM:  Well--Are we going to go there? Like, really go there?

ME:  We can go wherever you want.

THEM:  Oooooh, okay.

ME:  Okay.

THEM:  A lot of these places, back in June, when people still gave a f*** about Black people, pardon me--

ME:  No, go ahead.

THEM:  --These theaters wanted change. For a lot of them, their version of 'change' was looking around at what job openings they had, which wasn't much, because, hello, there's a pandemic going on, and they filled all their open positions with Black people. Great. We love that. What many of us didn't know, however, was that for many of them, that was all they thought they needed to do to fix their equity issues.

ME:  Got it.

THEM:  This was happening at theaters--and other businesses too.

ME:  Colleges.

THEM:  Colleges, yes. You had some college--By the way, congratulations to you on your new job.

ME:  Thanks, it's total bullshit, but thanks.

THEM:  Why do you think it's bullshit?

ME:  I just think it's bullshit that I've applied at schools A LOT worse than that one, and they were like 'No, no can do, you're not qualified' and then I got hired at a place WAY BETTER, and then a few of them call me and say 'Just kidding. You're qualified. Want to work here instead?'

THEM:  Did that happen?

ME:  Yes, it did. I have always said that I have no problem with colleges saying they want you to have a Masters to work for them, but that I find it interesting that that isn't a universal rule, and that it seems like the higher up you go, the less the rule exists, or it's a sometimes kind of issue, and then as soon as another school rubberstamps me as 'qualified' I have schools that I already applied at, who told me I had to have a Masters, coming back to me saying they changed their mind, like I don't know what really happened.

THEM:  I believe it. You know about the offer I got from [Name of School].

ME:  Do you want to talk about that?

THEM:  I will, because it speaks to the bigger point.

ME:  Go ahead.

THEM:  Back in July, I got offered a teaching position at [Name of School]--an acting position. Meanwhile, I have no teaching experience. None. They want me to come in and teach college. I say to [Name of Woman] that I don't feel I'm qualified for this, and she tells me they're trying to diversify their faculty. Great. Go diversify it with BIPOC people who have teaching experience. They're out there. They exist. No, they want to go on Facebook, see who they're already friends with, who's making the most noise, and assume they can teach. They do not want to do the work.

ME:  Didn't you say that you were recommended by--

THEM:  Yes, a white person recommended me to another white person. I bet it went 'I know this Black [person], you should hire them.' It is insulting to be offered a job you're not remotely right for--

ME:  Can I sort of counterpoint?

THEM:  Yes.

ME:  What about the argument--because this is where I'm at when it comes to teaching at this university--What about the argument that straight white guys have been getting jobs they're not qualified for for years?

THEM:  I see that, but here's the thing--I'm not going to be given the benefit of the doubt if I fail. If I go in there, and I start teaching, and it doesn't go well, because I don't know what the hell I'm doing, it's not going to be like what it would be like for a white person, where they'll be allowed to fail and fail until they get it right--

ME:  And even if they never do.

THEM:  Yes. Instead, I'll be fired. Someone will question my ability, which I can't defend, because I'm not qualified, and they'll act like somehow I misled them. That's what happens. We're seeing that already at some of these theaters that went out, grabbed the first Black person they could find, put them in a high up position at their theater, and now the clock's ticking before they start getting rid of these people and using them as a backroom excuse for why you can't give 'people like that' a chance. It is preemptive gaslighting. Because when an unqualified white person gets a job somewhere, somebody still believes in them. Somebody still thinks they can do the job. When it's a BIPOC person, that is not always the case.

ME:  And you're talking about every level--

THEM:  Every level. I'm seeing people with no experience being given education departments to run. Marketing departments to run and they've got no experience in marketing or advertising. All kinds of positions, and it's--

ME:  It's setting them up to fail.

THEM:  It is setting them to fail. To add insult to injury, they want this--This move--to count as equity. We're good now. That's why I get nervous when theaters put timelines on how long it'll be before they balance out the racial representation in their offices.

ME:  I did that though.

THEM:  (Laughs.)  Damn.

ME:  But you're right. Keep going.

THEM:  I get the impetus to do it. The problem is, if you run out of time, you're just going to go grab who you can find, and you're not going to be thoughtful about it.

ME:  I get that, yeah.

THEM:  If someone has no experience in marketing, and you believe they have something in them that would cause them to excel in marketing, set up a mentor program. Create a position where they can learn with an eye on having them run your department in a few years--

ME:  But people were demanding immediate change.

THEM:  That is immediate change. If you really want a BIPOC person running your education department? Great. You have to go look for that person. I was not seeing people do national searches. I was not seeing colleges do national searches for new professors--no offense.

ME:  None taken.

THEM:  I was not seeing work. I was seeing quick changes for optics, and then I would go in front of a board, and they would tell me 'We're doing so well. We're doing SO well. Do you believe how well we're doing?'

ME:  And you said 'No, no, sweetie.'

THEM:  (Laughs.)  I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

ME:  Are you going to continue doing this work?

THEM:  Yes, but my focus has shifted.

ME:  To?

THEM:  Now I'm talking mainly to BIPOC artists about how they can protect themselves when given what appear to be opportunities.

ME:  Appear to be is doing a lot of work there.

THEM:  (Laughs.)  I get it. It's money. It's a job. Some of these jobs are excited. I really wanted to teach college. But you have to know whether or not you're being set up to succeed, like you said, not set up to fail, and if you feel that you're not being set up to succeed, you need to set yourself up as best you can or you need to walk away, because some of these theaters are out here ready to ruin a reputation, because you lost your mind thinking you have people believing in you who don't. Get everything in writing. Get job descriptions that are clear as can be. Make sure you get the people hiring you to acknowledge--in writing--what your concerns are about the job you're taking. If you don't have a degree that you think would help you in that job, and you're worried about that, write it down that you were concerned and have an exchange in writing so you can show that you were not trying to pull one over on anybody.

ME:  It sounds like you have to have some really humbling conversations with yourself.

THEM:  Yes, and that's hard for people. Because we're a talk-up culture. We talk ourselves up to ourselves to overcome a lot of insecurities we have--all kinds of people, but BIPOC people in particular. There's a lot of imposter syndrome going on, and it makes sense that you want to try shouting over that voice telling you that you're not ready, but you cannot be walking into a job, like one of my friends did, not knowing a damn thing about graphic design, and you were hired for a graphic design job, and then everybody wants to know a week later why you took the job. Why did you OFFER her the job? She never told you she could do graphic design. You wanted a Black woman on your staff so you could post about it, and get likes, and everything was great until she needed to do the job. This girl calls me crying, because she thought if she couldn't do the job, the employer, in this case the theater, would never have hired her in the first place, and that's how it should be. It's not the person who needs a job and who needs money that should be taking themselves out of running, but that might be what needs to happen since people are falling all over themselves to do what they think is diversifying.

ME:  So now you're trying to be more of an advocate for--

THEM:  I've always been an advocate for--

ME:  No, I know, but you know what I--

THEM:  Yeah, I get what you're saying.

ME:  Do you feel better about approaching it that way?

THEM:  I feel it will be more healthy for me in the long run and it will create more positive change.

ME:  Advocating for individuals and not trying to educate organizations.

THEM:  If I come into an organization, and I'm told--Because I will still work with organizations--but if I come in and I'm told--We love what you're saying. It's great. By the way, you're going to work with us for six months and then the board and cancel the whole thing? No. No point in me doing that.

ME:  Is that the fault of the people running the theaters or the fault of how non-profits are set up?

THEM:  It's not a bad thing to have a board that has power. That's not bad depending on whose on the board, but organizations--the members--need to push these boards to either expand so that they can bring more BIPOC people to the table, so that I don't have to worry that I'm going in front of twenty white people when I step into this board meeting, or they need to ask some members to step down. Simple as that. There needs to be sacrifice. I'm not seeing sacrifice. I'm not seeing people understand that it's not as simple as 'We can keep everyone we have and we'll just build a bigger table.' I get how that sounds nice, but that's not always possible. Sometimes somebody needs to voluntarily walk away from the table. If you want me to believe you want change? Walk away and wish me well. Then I'll know you're serious. Otherwise, use this time to reflect before you decide that you need to display--I'm saying 'display' now--display your actions. Reflect then act.

ME:  But what about people like me who are saying 'You're taking too long to act?'

THEM:  I've heard what you're saying, and what I'm saying. There is commitment, reflection, and action. They can go in that order. Reflection is missing from a lot of these commitments.

ME:  Like you brought up thoughtfulness.

THEM:  It has to be thoughtful or it won't be lasting.

ME:  Thank you and I love you.

THEM:  I love you too. Thank you for this.

ME:  Stay well.

THEM:  You too. Merry Christmas.

ME:  Merry Christmas.

Them is an advocate, actor, and movement instructor.