Two years ago, I started interviewing people in the theater world about the problems within that community.
All the subjects of the interviews remained anonymous to encourage people to speak directly and plainly without worrying that there would be consequences down the line.
(Of course, even then, some people felt like outing themselves and getting in hot water, but we're going to leave that water under another bridge.)
When I decided it was time to bring the series to a close, it was partly because I thought it had run its course, and partly because I had a new topic I wanted to tackle.
While I've had my issues with theater and the people who do it, I've never felt like I didn't belong there, whereas from the moment I came out, I've never truly felt like a part of the gay community.
To be clear, that probably has way more to do with me than the community, but it's something I wanted to explore, and I knew how I wanted to do it.
The theater interviews were always conducted with people who didn't live anywhere near me, and there was a reason for that. We like to think that if we can attach a problem to someone we know, we can fix the problem, and I've never found that to be the case. Problems within systems are not caused by any one person, but the system itself. That's the case in theater, and I believe it's the same for the LGBTQ community.
So I picked a city far from my own, and I started reaching out to gay men in that city. I spent a few months following as many of them as I could on social media, and then I began asking if I could interview them. The goal was to see if we could address some of the issues of the modern gay community and get to the heart of those issues while hopefully find some solutions.
Last week, I asked the person I was speaking with who I should talk to next. They referred me to Noah, who recently got engaged. Again.
Here's the interview:
ME: I like your coffee mug.
NOAH: Isn't it cute?
ME: It's the biggest coffee mug I've ever seen in my life.
NOAH: (Laughs.) I need it.
ME: That's a double trenta.
NOAH: You fill this up, and you're good for the day.
ME: I'm going to take that quote out of context.
NOAH: (Laughs.) Okay, thank you for calming me down.
ME: You weren't calm?
NOAH: Noooooo.
ME: Why not?
NOAH: I read the other two interviews.
ME: With your friend Porter?
NOAH: And with Liam.
ME: Only the one with Porter got contentious though.
NOAH: Yeah.
ME: Because of the party you threw with him.
NOAH: There you go!
ME: (Laughs.) We're moving on.
NOAH: I did not throw the party.
ME: You invited people to the party.
NOAH: I did not invite that many people.
ME: I'm going to yell at you if you keep this up.
NOAH: I will cry. I'm not joking.
ME: You cry if people yell at you?
NOAH: I cry over everything. I don't like having people be mad at me.
ME: I'm never mad at anyone. I'm just loud and I aim volume and fire.
NOAH: How do I get you to not do that to me?
ME: Speak wisely.
NOAH: I'm going to try.
ME: You'll be fine. How old are you?
NOAH: I am thirty years old.
ME: The big turn.
NOAH: I'm over the hill now.
ME: Oh my god, shut up.
NOAH: Don't yell.
ME: I'm not going to yell, but shut up. How long have you lived in the community?
NOAH: Since I came out. I came out when I was twenty and I've been around ever since then.
ME: Would you say you have a presence in the community?
NOAH: Not that much, no.
ME: But a lot of people seem to know you.
NOAH: Everybody knows everybody here though.
ME: And when did you meet Elijah?
NOAH: Four--Five years ago.
ME: So break down the trajectory of your relationship for me.
NOAH: We met in 2016. We got engaged in 2017. The wedding was the following October. We separated in March. We reconnected in May of 2020, and we got engaged again on New Year's Eve.
ME: Oh. Oh wow.
NOAH: (Laughs.) It's been a ride.
ME: It's a ride, that's true.
NOAH: I say that we have one of those love stories that you see in the movies.
ME: Horror movies?
NOAH: (Laughs.) You're so bad.
ME: See, I can tease you. We're going to get along just fine.
NOAH: We have a really epic love story, Kevin.
ME: I have a theater named Epic and we have told folding chairs and a hole in the ceiling, so be careful how you use the word.
NOAH: I saw your page, you post a lot of funny things.
ME: Nobody even knows we do theater. They think we're a meme account.
NOAH: I gave you a Like.
ME: Thanks, I'll Venmo you. How personal are you cool with me getting here?
NOAH: About me?
ME: You and the relationship.
NOAH: You can get as personal as you want.
ME: Okay. So--what do you think made the marriage fall apart?
NOAH: We're going right to that?
ME: That's the first thing that jumped to my mind. I'm a terrible interviewer.
NOAH: You have to build the story, Kevin.
ME: I know. I keep meaning to read Diane Sawyer's book on this.
NOAH: (Laughs.) It's cool. Elijah and I--We've talked a lot about this.
ME: Did you two go to therapy?
NOAH: No. We should, I think, but we haven't.
ME: Okay.
NOAH: Um. When we first met, we fell in love really fast, we--we got caught up in how fast it was all moving, and we get married, and we're happy, and he decided to make some changes in his life that should have had a positive impact on our relationship and I was not ready to receive those changes, and that led to us separating.
ME: I don't understand any of that.
NOAH: (Laughs.) I'm trying to--I'm still learning how to talk about it.
ME: What changes did he make? Did he get a face tattoo?
NOAH: He--Um.
ME: Spit it out, Noah.
NOAH: He started working out a lot.
ME: Oh, he got hot.
NOAH: Noooo, he was hot before.
ME: But did he go from like 'Normal Hot' to 'Movie Star Hot?' Is that what happened?
NOAH: He started doing CrossFit.
ME: Ohhhh mama.
NOAH: What?
ME: I know where this is going.
NOAH: Do you?
ME: I think I do. Let me ask this--What did you two look like before he started doing CrossFit?
NOAH: Him or me.
ME: Both of you.
NOAH: Um. I was not in good shape.
ME: Okay.
NOAH: I was not in good shape and he was in worse shape than me, and I think even he would say that.
ME: Then he joins CrossFit?
NOAH: Yes.
ME: And gets in great shape?
NOAH: Yes.
ME: And I'm guessing you were not trying to get in better shape at that time?
NOAH: No, I was--I was working a lot. I run my own video editing company and we were getting a lo to work at that time. One day--I tell people--One day I come home, and my husband is a model.
ME: How did you feel about that?
NOAH: I'll be honest. It made me uncomfortable.
ME: Why?
NOAH: Because all of a sudden, he's a ten and I'm a six.
ME: I should say--We have to talk honestly about this, but I don't want to advocate that you have to have an eight pack to be of value or worthy of love or anything like that, but that is how the gay community can make you feel.
NOAH: Yes.
ME: So did you feel insecure being married to a guy who looked like that?
NOAH: I did.
ME: Were guys sliding into his DM's?
NOAH: Constantly.
ME: I bet.
NOAH: And to his credit, he would show me the messages.
ME: What did you you do when he showed them to you?
NOAH: I would send messages back.
ME: Oh shit.
NOAH: I went a little crazy.
ME: Why wouldn't he send messages back?
NOAH: He would. He stopped getting them after awhile.
ME: But you're going crazy?
NOAH: Yes.
ME: Did you worry that he was going to have an affair?
NOAH: All the time.
ME: Did your sex life change?
NOAH: Yes. I didn't want to have sex with him.
ME: You didn't?
NOAH: No.
ME: Why not?
NOAH: I felt--It's the dream to have sex with someone who looks like that, but if you hate the way you look--
ME: Did you hate the way you looked before he got hot?
NOAH: I did but I didn't realize how bad it was.
ME: Because you two were on equal footing.
NOAH: Yes.
ME: Was there some final straw that broke you two up?
NOAH: He posted a naked photo.
ME: Fully naked?
NOAH: He was covering his, you know, with a towel, but he was naked.
ME: Where was this?
NOAH: He took it at home one day after getting out of the shower.
ME: And he posted it?
NOAH: Yes.
ME: Did he tell you he took the photo or that he was going to post it?
NOAH: No.
ME: And you flipped out?
NOAH: Yes.
ME: What did he say?
NOAH: That he was goofing around. He thought he looked cute.
ME: And you're seeing the comments section light up, I bet.
NOAH: Yes.
ME: So you had a fight?
NOAH: We had a big fight, and it ended with him moving out the next day.
ME: Wow.
NOAH: Worst day of my life.
ME: I'm sorry.
NOAH: But the funny part is, after he left, I started working out.
ME: Out of spite?
NOAH: Um, it might be that. A little bit of that.
ME: It was that.
NOAH: (Laughs.) It was that.
ME: So you get in shape.
NOAH: Yes.
ME: And then you two--
NOAH: We were both invited to this, um, event together.
ME: Orgy?
NOAH: Kevin!
ME: Why did you say 'event' like that? What event?
NOAH: It was a baby shower.
ME: Oh god, now I feel gross.
NOAH: You should.
ME: You could have just said 'baby shower.'
NOAH: I know. I don't know why I didn't want to say we met again at a baby shower.
ME: But you met again, and what happened? You were like 'Wow, now we're both hot?'
NOAH: We both started talking and we were at a place where he felt good about himself and I felt good about myself. We started building back from there.
ME: What did your friends and family say when you reconnected?
NOAH: They were glad. People loved us together. They were happy that we were going to try again.
ME: Did everybody feel that way?
NOAH: Um. No. Well--
ME: Okay.
NOAH: I had a total breakdown when we split up. People didn't want--the people who care about me didn't want to see me get hurt in that way again.
ME: Valid.
NOAH: Very valid.
ME: And that brings us to the re-engagement video.
NOAH: Mhmmm.
ME: You filmed it during COVID. So there's still the COVID element.
NOAH: It was done with all safety, uh, we were safe when filming it.
ME: It was--Noah, it was a big production.
NOAH: I have a big personality.
ME: This is--I have to describe it as best I can, because you sent me the video, but this was--How did you send this out? You didn't make it public.
NOAH: We did at first, and then we got a lot of flack for it.
ME: Because it's all these people dancing in the streets--
NOAH: It's not in the streets. We did it on a backlot.
ME: A BACKLOT?
NOAH: We rented--There's a studio about two hours from us where they film things, and we rented that and filmed it there.
ME: Gurl.
NOAH: I wanted--
ME: Okay, wait--So on this backlot, which looks very realistic, you film this big, musical announcement with dancing and singing, where you announce that you two are engaged--again.
NOAH: Yes.
ME: Did you do something like this the first time you got engaged?
NOAH: We only did a photoshoot.
ME: So why go bigger the second time? Did you not have the money to go this big the first time?
NOAH: It wasn't money, it was--You know, I feel really good about where I am in my life now.
ME: You feel good about how you look.
NOAH: It's not just looks--
ME: But I'm guessing it's not a small part of it?
NOAH: I can dance now without getting winded--
ME: Were you a dancer before you filmed this?
NOAH: We hired a choreographer.
ME: NOAH!
NOAH: I'm extra. I know I am.
ME: A choreographer IN THIS ECONOMY?
NOAH: I know.
ME: And this is just for the engagement video.
NOAH: I know.
ME: I saw photos from your first wedding--
NOAH: Oh god.
ME: How much did that wedding cost you?
NOAH: I don't want to tell you.
ME: I have no idea how much a wedding costs, so whatever number you give me is going to make me sick to my stomach.
NOAH: It was a lot.
ME: Was it more than fifty grand?
NOAH: It was a lot more than fifty grand.
ME: Was it more than seventy grand?
NOAH: It was eighty-eight.
ME: EIGHTY-EIGHT THOUSAND DOLLARS?
NOAH: Yes.
ME: Noah.
NOAH: (Laughs.) I'm sorry.
ME: Noah, people are starving. I'm starving. I haven't eaten since noon.
NOAH: I didn't plan on it being that much, that's--I thought it was going to be my only wedding.
ME: Who are you? Celine Dion? You can't be having an eighty-eight thousand dollar wedding. That's obscene. You are not Harry and Megan.
NOAH: It was too much. I'm still paying it off.
ME: You're still paying it off and now you're doing it again?
NOAH: It's not going to be as big this time.
ME: But is it going to be big?
NOAH: Not as big.
ME: But listen to my question.
NOAH: We do want to celebrate this new chapter in our lives.
ME: You're going to spend eighty-five grand, aren't you?
NOAH: That's not the goal.
ME: But it might happen?
NOAH: It could be--We're looking at how to keep costs low.
ME: Why not just--hear me out--why not just--a simple ceremony at City Hall?
NOAH: We don't want to do that.
ME: Why not?
NOAH: Because we're happy and we want to share that happiness.
ME: But you were happy before and you shared that happiness before and people bought dresses and got babysitters and got you gifts and now you want to do all that again?
NOAH: We do.
ME: But do you see how it's not just about you. We talk about weddings like they're all about the people getting married, but the minute you invite people, and they agree to go, they're now spending money on you and your partner. Weddings aren't cheap for anybody.
NOAH: I know that, and if someone can't afford to go--
ME: But why is it necessary to even have a second wedding to the same person you were already married to? You already have wedding photos--
NOAH: I hate those photos.
ME: They're gorgeous photos. I'm sure you paid a lot for them.
NOAH: Yes, but I can't even look at them.
ME: Because of how you look now?
NOAH: I would like--I would like my wedding photos to be me on my best day.
ME: Noah, how you look in wedding photos has nothing to do with your marriage.
NOAH: I know.
ME: I have no business giving marriage advice, but you just told me, you two got married and the whole thing cracked open after a year because your husband figured out how to use a treadmill, and you two are not in therapy, and you're still paying off Wedding #1, and your biggest concern is showing off how cute you are now in a photo where you're feeding each other cake?
NOAH: We can't even eat cake right now.
ME: Don't crack a joke. C'mon.
NOAH: I know. I'm sorry.
ME: Are you worried about making this marriage work this time or are you worried about presenting your love and your relationship in a way that you can be proud of?
NOAH: What's wrong with me wanting to be proud of how we present ourselves and our marriage?
ME: Because it's nobody's business what your marriage is like and nobody thinks that a big fancy wedding has anything to do with whether or not you two are going to make it. You already proved that true the first time you got married. I mean, at a certain point, it's not even a wedding. It's a pageant.
NOAH: I did think about that a lot at the time. You have to understand though--I wanted the fairy tale. I work hard. I paid my own way. The one thing that I could never get under control was my body and how I looked.
ME: And you didn't look bad. I saw the photos from back then. You're very handsome.
NOAH: But compared to--
ME: Well, compared to the Duke from Bridgeton, we're all the trash heap from The Fraggles. Compared to is the danger zone.
NOAH: I know, for me, I always felt like I could have it all--I could have a career that I was proud of, which meant I could have nice things, I could travel, I could do all that. What I couldn't have was being the guy in the photo with all these people telling me how hot I was. I never got that confidence that you get when you have that kind of, um--
ME: Validation.
NOAH: When you have that kind of validation coming at you. We get married, and everybody's talking about the wedding. They're sharing the photos. I'm getting all these compliments. I loved it.
ME: Then it's over, and you realize you don't get likes for having a good marriage.
NOAH: Yes.
ME: You get likes once a year on your anniversary and when you each post something nice about each other on your birthdays.
NOAH: Yes.
ME: Which is why the goal is to just like the person.
NOAH: Right, I should be getting validation from my husband not from people on the--
ME: No, you should be getting it from yourself.
NOAH: Yes.
ME: Can I be blunt?
NOAH: Yes.
ME: You had a taste of blowing up the internet with that first wedding. Is there a part of you that knows that even though people are rolling their eyes at this engagement video and they'll roll their eyes at a second wedding, you're still going to get all those compliments again and those Likes again, because people on social media just rubber stamp everything with positivity?
NOAH: I. Like, what are you asking?
ME: Did you get addicted and are you looking for another hit?
(Silence.)
Especially knowing that, now that you're hot, the hit's potentially going to be a lot bigger.
(Silence.)
NOAH: Sorry.
ME: Are you upset?
NOAH: Yes.
ME: Want to take a minute?
NOAH: No, it's okay.
ME: Am I wrong? I get accused of leading the witness a lot, so--
NOAH: (Laughs.) Yeah, that's how that felt.
ME: But am I wrong?
NOAH: No.
ME: Do you want to get married again?
NOAH: I want to be married to Elijah.
ME: Do you want another wedding?
NOAH: Um.
ME: If you had to do the whole wedding, but you couldn't post about it, you couldn't put photos online, it all had to be private, would that change the kind of wedding you would have?
NOAH: Yes.
ME: It would.
NOAH: Yes. I haven't thought about it like that, but yes, it would.
ME: I feel like that's a big deal.
NOAH: Yes.
ME: But it's good that you want to be married.
NOAH: I do.
ME: Do you think Elijah wants the big wedding too?
NOAH: I don't know. He says he does, but we'd have to talk, because now I don't know.
ME: Can I talk to him as well?
NOAH: Yes.
ME: Good. I have a few questions.
Noah's engagement video has since been removed from the site it was posted on.
Comments
Post a Comment