Two years ago, I started interviewing people in the theater world about the problems within that community.
All the subjects of the interviews remained anonymous to encourage people to speak directly and plainly without worrying that there would be consequences down the line.
(Of course, even then, some people felt like outing themselves and getting in hot water, but we're going to leave that water under another bridge.)
When I decided it was time to bring the series to a close, it was partly because I thought it had run its course, and partly because I had a new topic I wanted to tackle.
While I've had my issues with theater and the people who do it, I've never felt like I didn't belong there, whereas from the moment I came out, I've never truly felt like a part of the gay community.
To be clear, that probably has way more to do with me than the community, but it's something I wanted to explore, and I knew how I wanted to do it.
The theater interviews were always conducted with people who didn't live anywhere near me, and there was a reason for that. We like to think that if we can attach a problem to someone we know, we can fix the problem, and I've never found that to be the case. Problems within systems are not caused by any one person, but the system itself. That's the case in theater, and I believe it's the same for the LGBTQI+ community.
So I picked a city far from my own, and I started reaching out to gay men in that city. I spent a few months following as many of them as I could on social media, and then I began asking if I could interview them. The goal was to see if we could address some of the issues of the modern gay community and get to the heart of those issues while hopefully find some solutions.
If you've been following the ongoing Guest List saga, then you know that today is a big one. It's not "the" big one, because not only has the Host not responded to my requests to talk, he's actually sent a laughably Google-able C&D letter. Instead, I'm talking to "Chet." The man who sent the death threats to Scott, and who has come up in other interviews, including last week. If you want to catch up on The Guest List, check out these interviews--
The Community and the Guest List
The Community and the Doublemint Twins
The Community and the Bartender
Here's the interview:
ME: Can you move your laptop a little bit? There's a light coming in by the--
CHET: Sorry. Is that better?
ME: Yeah, that's great. Nobody's going to see this, but it makes it harder to--
CHET: Yeah, yeah, no worries, man. No worries.
ME: How are you doing?
CHET: I'm good. I'm good. Ready to do this.
ME: Why did you decide to talk with me?
CHET: Just--I have nothing to hide. I was like 'F--- it.' Let's do it.
ME: Wanna do the 1-2-3's with me first?
CHET: Okay.
ME: When did you come out?
CHET: After college.
ME: Have you always lived in The Community?
CHET: Yes. This is where I'm from.
ME: And how long have you been friends with the people on the Guest List?
CHET: The friends I have I've had since--Almost since I first came out.
ME: How did you meet them?
CHET: Going out.
ME: Is that how you meet all your friends?
CHET: No, but that's how I met most of them.
ME: Did you meet Scott at the party he went to at [The Host]'s house?
CHET: I didn't meet him there.
ME: Then how did you end up interacting with him afterwards?
CHET: Because of things he was saying about the party and my friends on Instagram.
ME: When you sent the death threats--
CHET: They weren't death threats.
ME: You said you were going to 'kill him.'
CHET: Saying you're going to kill someone isn't a death threat.
ME: What is it? A Valentine?
CHET: It's a figure of speak. You say, 'I'm going to kill you, b----.' That's not a death threat. That's--You're talking s--- and you're getting beat for it.
ME: But you weren't planning on beating him up?
CHET: If he tried getting into it with me, then I might have.
ME: Because you had an altercation at The Bar?
CHET: He wanted to get into it with me. I didn't start anything.
ME: You sent the first message to him on Instagram.
CHET: Because he was talking about Instagram about the party.
ME: Becaaaaaaause The Host had sent him--
CHET: If he didn't like the party, he didn't need to be there.
ME: I think it was more about him behaving in a way that you all felt wasn't appropriate at the--
CHET: I didn't care how he acted.
ME: The Host didn't like how he acted.
CHET: It's The Host's house. If he doesn't like how he's acting, he has the right to ask him to leave.
ME: Yes, but he wasn't wrong about what kind of party it was.
CHET: What kind of party was it? It's a party.
ME: It's not just any party.
CHET: I don't really care what happened with Scott, but I don't like when people attack my friends.
ME: Are your friends allowed to attack other people?
CHET: They didn't.
ME: They have attacked people. Thomas, who I talked to--
CHET: He sucks.
ME: Why does he suck?
CHET: He's not fun.
ME: Why?
CHET: He used to come to the parties and nobody liked him.
ME: Because he wouldn't let any of you ---- his husband?
CHET: I didn't want to ---- his husband.
ME: That's not what the DM's say, Chet.
CHET: If I DM-ed him, I must have been drunk.
ME: How often are you drunk?
CHET: Not a lot.
ME: A lot of people have told me that you're often the one at the parties who drinks the most.
CHET: I don't know who told you that.
ME: You don't drink the most?
CHET: No.
ME: Who drinks more than you?
CHET: We all drink equally.
ME: So the story about you urinating on the guest--
CHET: That's made up.
ME: So if The Host said that's what you did, that would be a lie?
CHET: Uh, I don't know why he would say that.
ME: But he did say that. There are screenshots that I know you saw--
CHET: He was being funny then. It's a joke. I don't think you know what a joke is.
ME: Oh, trust me, I know what a joke is. I've talked to enough of them.
CHET: It's a group of friends who hang out. You make it sound like we're a gang.
ME: I wouldn't say that. The Crip's didn't have fourteen-hour barbecues.
CHET: We have a good time at the barbecues.
ME: Are you drinking the entire time?
CHET: We have drinks. We're not on a bender.
ME: But if you're drinking for fourteen or fifteen hours--
CHET: You drink, you sober up, you drink some more.
ME: What do you think people think of you in the Community, Chet?
CHET: I don't care what they think of me.
ME: What do you think your friends think of you?
CHET: Which friends?
ME: The Host. The Twins. I don't know exactly who's on the Guest List, but I've seen you come up in some of their conversations and--It doesn't sound like they like you.
CHET: If they didn't like me, I don't know why they'd be hanging out with me.
ME: Well, it sounds like The Host wants you around, but it doesn't sound like anybody else does.
CHET: I don't think that's true.
ME: I'm going to read from a conversation between [Name] and [Name] that happened on [Date], I talked to [The Host] and told him not to tell Chet about the dinner for [Name]'s birthday. I do not want him there getting ----faced and being a ----.
CHET: Can I see that?
ME: I'll forward it to you.
CHET: Okay.
(A minute goes by.)
CHET: I didn't know about this.
ME: About this exchange?
CHET: About the birthday dinner.
ME: So you weren't invited?
CHET: I don't think it ended up happening.
ME: It happened. I found photos of it online.
CHET: I wouldn't have gone anyway. I don't like [Name].
ME: [Name] isn't your friend?
CHET: No.
ME: But you spend a lot of time together.
CHET: Because [Name] is friends with [The Host]. That's why we all hang out.
ME: Do you like hanging out with people you're not friends with?
CHET: I'm friends with [The Host]. That's who I hang out with when I'm with those people.
ME: Are you upset that The Host didn't tell you about the birthday dinner?
CHET: No, he knows I don't like him. I wouldn't have gone.
ME: What did you think about them assuming you'd get drunk and act up?
CHET: I would have had to drink to go to dinner with them.
ME: Do you have always have to drink when you're around people you don't like?
CHET: Yeah.
ME: Okay.
CHET: Don't you?
ME: No.
CHET: Everybody I know drinks if they're not having a good time.
ME: But if you're not having a good time when you're around these people--
CHET: It depends what we're doing. If we're hanging out at [The Host]'s house, we're at the pool, that's a good time.
ME: And then you don't drink?
CHET: I'll drink but I won't get drunk.
ME: So you only get drunk when you've having a bad time?
CHET: You have to.
ME: Why?
CHET: Because you're having a bad time. Why would you want to be sober for that?
ME: Why not just leave?
CHET: I don't know. I don't always know I'm having a bad time until I start to get like--Like I wanna go, but if I've already had a few drinks, I'll just have a few more, and that's how I handle it.
ME: Okay, but--
CHET: Because I'm not going to leave and drive home if I've already--
ME: So you're saying, you have a few drinks if you're there, just there, and then if it starts to look like you're going to have a bad time, you just--
CHET: Why are we talking about this?
ME: Because this is how they're labeling you. You're--According to them--You're the--
CHET: Who's them?
ME: Your friends.
CHET: No.
ME: Chet, The Host calls you a 'drunk f---ing mess' numerous times. Some of those times are on public statues that anyone can see.
CHET: Where?
ME: On your birthday, he posted about you with the caption, 'I love this guy even if he is a drunk f---ing mess.'
CHET: That's a joke.
ME: You look drunk in every single photo he posted with that caption.
CHET: I probably was drunk in all those photos. We have a good time.
ME: But you said you only get drunk--
CHET: I don't want to talk about--Don't make me sound like a drunk.
ME: I'm not. I'm trying to figure out why you're defending people who make you sound that way.
CHET: My friends know what I'm about, man. I'm not worried about what you think about me.
ME: You're not worried that people think you're a mess?
CHET: No, because I'm not. I have a job. I have a house. I have a car. I'm not some homeless person on the street, dude. ---- off with what you're doing here, man. This is bull----.
ME: How often do you drink, Chet?
CHET: Not often.
ME: How often?
CHET: A couple of times a week.
ME: A couple of times a week or every night?
CHET: A couple of times a week. I answered you. Move on.
ME: Did you drive to The Bar during a state of emergency so you could get stuck there instead of at home?
CHET: Who told you that?
ME: You posted about it.
CHET: I didn't want to be trapped at home for two days by myself. Sue me, dude.
ME: So you'd rather be trapped at a bar?
CHET: A bar. Somewhere other than my house.
ME: Why not go to The Host's house?
CHET: It was a joke, man. I was going to go to the bar and have a beer.
ME: During a state of emergency?
CHET: Yeah. So?
ME: As a joke?
CHET: Yeah. It wasn't like--There wasn't an avalanche or anything. It wasn't a real state of emergency.
ME: I can't say what kind of emergency it was, because I think that might help give away where you all live, but...It was serious, Chet.
CHET: I just wanted a drink, dude. Get off my ----.
ME: Did you drink before this interview?
CHET: (Laughs.)
ME: No, I'm serious. Did you?
CHET: I was nervous.
ME: How many drinks did you have before this interview?
CHET: One.
ME: No, you didn't.
CHET: You got screenshots of that too?
ME: We're going to stop recording now.
CHET: We're done?
ME: No, we're not done. I want to talk to you where you know I'm not recording and then maybe we'll turn it back on.
CHET: Why?
ME: Because I don't want to record your answers to the next few questions. One second.
(Recording Stops. Resumes.)
ME: Okay, we're back. Chet, if you want me to stop recording again, just let me know, okay?
CHET: Okay.
ME: There are some things you didn't know about that I just...made you aware of, and we're going to talk about them, right?
CHET: Yeah.
ME: Okay. Did you know that The Host had been messaging a guy you were dating telling him that he should break up with you because you're 'unstable?'
CHET: I didn't know that.
ME: But I just showed you proof that that happened, right?
CHET: Yes.
ME: Do you believe what I showed you?
CHET: It's right there.
ME: Okay. Did you know that The Host sent a group of people a message saying that one day you were going to 'die in a car crash' and that when that happened 'at least he won't have to babysit you anymore?'
CHET: I didn't know about that.
ME: Does that sound like a joke to you?
CHET: No.
ME: You two used to go to the gym together, right?
CHET: Yes.
ME: And it looks like he messaged somebody that he knew at the gym and asked them to ban you, because he didn't want to go with you anymore.
CHET: Yes.
ME: He shared photos of you breaking some of rules that the gym has, right?
CHET: Yes.
ME: And he got you banned?
CHET: Yes.
ME: And then what did he tell you when he asked you to switch gyms with him?
CHET: That he couldn't because that's the gym closest to his work.
ME: But you didn't know he was the one who got you banned, right?
CHET: No.
ME: But now you do?
CHET: Yes.
ME: How often do you drink--a couple of times a week or every day?
CHET: Every day.
ME: How often do you drink too much?
CHET: Almost every day.
ME: If you're in a social situation, good or bad, do you have to drink?
CHET: Yes.
ME: Do you have to be drunk?
CHET: Usually, yes.
ME: You ever thought about getting help for that?
CHET: No.
ME: Why not?
(A moment.)
ME: Want to take another break?
CHET: No. I'm all right.
ME: It's normal to be uncomfortable talking about this.
CHET: This isn't to change the subject, but I have something I want to say.
ME: Okay.
CHET: When I sent Scott the death threats, or what I sent Scott, I was with [The Host] and he wrote them out from my account. I just hit Send.
ME: He wrote the threats?
CHET: Yes.
ME: Why didn't he just send them from his own account?
CHET: He told me that I'm scarier than he is and it would make more of a difference if it came from me.
ME: What did you think about that?
CHET: We're best friends. I'm there for him.
ME: Do you think he's there for you?
CHET: He's been there for me.
ME: Do you think any of that is...Him wanting the contrast of you making him look good, because he cares so much about looking very put together and you being next to him helps create that perception?
CHET: Uh. I could see that.
ME: So he'd be using you?
CHET: If you look at it that way, then yeah.
ME: How would you feel if that was the case?
CHET: I'd feel stupid. But. I don't know if I can be honest and say that I didn't think that might be how it was.
ME: Then why would you go along with it?
CHET: Because I still get to go on the trips. I still get to go to the parties. You're going to be somebody if you're in a group. If I'm the joke, I'm the joke. At least I'm in the group. I'm included.
ME: But now you know you're not always included?
CHET: I kind of knew that too.
ME: Do you think they treat you well?
CHET: I don't know what that means.
ME: Why not?
CHET: They're the first group of friends I've had.
ME: Does anybody in your life treat you better than them?
CHET: They tease me a lot. I don't know if I'm being treated badly.
ME: Chet, you're being treated badly.
CHET: I don't know.
ME: You're being treated badly and you're being enabled. It's none of my business, but I think you should get help, and I can actually help with that, because I have friends who have gone through this, and I'd really love for you to talk to them, because I'm not an expert, but I do know that there is no version of this where you keep spending time with these people and don't wind up dead.
(A moment.)
ME: Do you think I'm wrong?
CHET: No.
ME: Can we talk about Halloween where you wore the offensive costume?
CHET: Yes.
ME: Why did you wear it?
CHET: Uh. The Host was supposed to wear a matching costume.
ME: And you showed up and he wasn't wearing a matching costume?
CHET: Yes.
ME: Were you upset?
CHET: Uh. Yeah.
ME: What did he say?
CHET: He said he changed his mind.
ME: But he didn't tell you?
CHET: No.
ME: I mean, you still have to own wearing that costume and thinking it was fine.
CHET: Yeah.
ME: You have to take responsibility for all this behavior.
CHET: Yes.
ME: Do you want to get help?
CHET: I don't know.
ME: What's your hesitation?
CHET: Uh.
(A moment.)
CHET: Like--I guess--what if it doesn't work?
ME: That's reasonable.
CHET: Yeah.
ME: What if it does though? What if it could and you didn't give it a chance to?
(A moment.)
CHET: Yeah.
ME: I'm going to ask you for a few things, Chet, and if you don't want to do any of them, that's okay, but I do need you to talk to my friend [Name] and I can connect you with her. Would that be okay?
CHET: Yeah.
ME: Okay, great. Have you ever apologized to Scott?
CHET: No.
ME: Will you?
(A moment.)
CHET: Yes.
ME: You've been avoiding saying there's a Guest List. There is, isn't there?
CHET: Yes.
ME: Do you know who's on it?
CHET: I have the email with all the names in it.
ME: How current is that?
CHET: It's from--I think it's from a month or two ago.
ME: So it's current?
CHET: Yeah.
ME: Okay. Will you send that to me?
CHET: Yes.
ME: And it has names, emails--
CHET: Everything. Phone numbers. Everything. All the details too.
ME: What kind of details?
CHET: About what--Like, what people are into.
ME: Okay. I won't need that part. I'm not trying to dox people.
CHET: All right. I'll send it to you.
ME: Thank you. I do have plans for it.
CHET: This ----ing sucks.
ME: Chet, that feeling you're feeling, that's how bad it feels before everything gets better. Things are going to get better. I didn't ride into town just to ---- stir s--- up and take off. We're going to fix this.
CHET: I don't think you can fix it.
ME: Why not?
CHET: Because you can't control what people do. You're not going to force them to stop acting the way they act.
ME: I once got dogs to do Shakespeare, Chet. I can manipulate a bunch of otters and a pair of twinks.
CHET: (Laughs.) Man, you're ----ing crazy.
ME: Would you be upset if you never saw any of these people again?
CHET: I'd be--Yeah.
ME: Why?
CHET: Because. Like I said about the--going to the bar--It's better than being alone at my house doing nothing.
ME: I can help with that, Chet.
CHET: How? You going to move here and hang out with me?
ME: We're going to check in every day. Off the record.
CHET: Why?
ME: Because I am now invested in you. Be afraid, Chet.
CHET: (Laughs.) I should just move.
ME: Why?
CHET: Because it doesn't matter if--That's part of getting help is like--People think about me what they think. They're not going to change so why should I change?
ME: Because it's not about them. And you don't change and you don't do the right thing for other people. It's for you. It's not for them.
CHET: Yeah.
ME: That being said, you ----ed up many times and pretty badly, but I know Scott is open to hearing from you. I know Thomas and his husband are open to hearing from you. I do not think this has reached the point of no return.
CHET: That's good.
ME: I don't know if that's true of The Host.
CHET: You should be careful with him.
ME: Why do people keep saying that?
CHET: He ----ing hates you, dude.
ME: Well, I assumed.
CHET: He's, like, really going to come for you. I'm not kidding.
ME: What does that mean? He's coming for me?
CHET: I don't want to say while we're recording.
ME: Okay. Do I need to be worried.
CHET: I think you should be worried.
ME: Okay. Let's stop here then so we can talk.
CHET: We have a lot to talk about.
Chet and I spoke privately for about an hour, then I had him call a friend who specializes in addiction support. We've continued to talk every day and he has not contacted anyone on The Guest List.
To hear more about my conversation with Chet, sign up for the Epic Patreon where there's a new podcast every Thursday about the interview series. Go to www.Patreon.com/EpicTheatreCo
Comments
Post a Comment