A Conversation About Giving Up

After my post about my struggle with continuing to do theater, a friend reached out and
started talking to me about why they gave it up, and after a few minutes, I felt like I had to
record the conversation in some way.  My friend wanted to remain anonymous, so we
opted for a written version of what we talked about. I said at the end of the last piece
I wrote that I think it’s important we all talk about these things with each other, because
if nothing else, it’s a welcome change from the sometimes unrelenting “You’re killing it!”
narrative on social media.

Here’s the conversation.

Me:  This is kind of weird.  I’ve never done this before I don’t think.

Them:  Really?

Me:  Yeah, like, talked to a friend and then transcribed it?  I’ve never done that.

Them:  It’s interesting talking to you knowing this is going to be put out there.

Me:  So--yes, I know.  Thank you for agreeing to it.  I don’t know why but I feel like what I wrote
wasn’t--or shouldn’t be the last word on it.  That there’s more to say.

Them:  And you’ve been getting a lot of responses--

Me:  Yeah.

Them:  I believe it.

Me:  So you--I know you want to remain anonymous, but let’s just say you stopped doing theater
awhile back.

Them:  Yes.

Me:  Why?

Them:  Uh--well, that’s pretty blunt.

Me:  I know, sorry.

Them:  (Laughs.)  We’ve been--we’re friends and you’ve never come right out and asked like that.

Me:  I know.  It feels rude.

Them:  No, but isn’t it strange we’ve never talked about it?

Me:  That’s what I mean.  I don’t think people talk about this.

Them:  Or if they do, they have this, like, story prepared for it.

Me:  Like a press release.

Them:  Right, where it’s like “I’ve chosen to focus on other things.”

Me:  So you don’t think when people say that it’s true?

Them:  I mean, it’s true, but, like, it’s always so positive and upbeat.  Like, I’m done with theater
and I’m so excited about it. It would be nice to hear someone say “I can’t do this anymore and
it’s killing me.  I’m so upset.”

Me:  So upset that I have to stop.

Them:  Right.

Me:  And that’s where--like I think that’s where I am or where I’m headed.  I don’t want to stop.
I don’t even want to take a break. I just--want things to change.

Them:  Right, and that’s why I’m cool with talking to you, because--I was seeing all these people
comment with, like, “Do what you need to do” and I wanted to jump in and say “Um, Kevin loves
theater so much and he wants to quit.  Isn’t anybody concerned about that?” Like, not even on
your behalf or because it’s you--

Me:  Thank you.

Them:  (Laughs.)  You’re welcome, um, but--it’s like--Why aren’t we saying--All these good people
are calling it quits.  We need to fix the shit that’s wrong.

Me:  I can’t speak for other people, but, for me, when I would hear about people walking away,
I’d be like “Okay, well, you couldn’t hack it and that’s one less person I have to compete with.”

Them:  Wow, you were that heartless about it?

Me:  I was.  I probably still am to be honest.

Them:  I was probably like that too now that I think think about it.

Me:  It’s like--First they quit theater and I said nothing because I wanted the lead in the spring show.

Them:  Then I quit theater and was like “Why aren’t people begging me to stay?”

Me:  Honestly, you’re so talented, I would have begged you, but it seemed--

Them:  Well people always make it seem like their mind is made up.

Me:  Yeah, that’s why it was so important to me to make it very clear that my mind is NOT made up.
 I mean, I don’t want people--

Them:  You want people to beg you.

Me:  (Laughs.)  I don’t. I just want to acknowledge that there’s a space between “I’m done” and
“I’m having a blast.”  Like, there’s a lot of in-between there.

Them:  Yes.

Me:  Do you miss it?

Them:  Uh...It’s like.  It’s like how I might miss an ex I think?

Me:  Wow, that’s exactly the analogy I was using the other day.

Them:  Like, you miss them sometimes maybe, but you’re also totally fine with them not being in
your life anymore because you know it’s for the best.

Me:  Yup.

Them:  Was that in your essay?  Am I just quoting your essay back to you now?

Me:  You might be.  I have no intention of going back and reading it to find out.

Them:  You’re never going to read it again.

Me:  Not even for grammar.  Not even for spelling.

Them:  Well, it is like a marriage.

Me:  You’re giving away that you’re married.

Them:  So many clues.

Me:  This is turning into the Masked Singer.

Them:  I’m Gladys Knight.

Me:  If Gladys Knight ever quit the biz, I’d be devastated.

Them:  What did you say you were going to ask me about before we started recording?

Me:  Oh! I was going to ask if it’s hard for you to go see theater?

Them:  Yes. Oh yes.

Me:  Why is that?

Them:  Um--well, because I’m not doing it anymore, right?

Me:  Do you also ever sit there and go “I was better than you when I did this?”

Them:  Honestly?  Yes.

Me:  (Laughs.)  Isn’t it great being anonymous?

Them:  I feel so powerful.  I feel like I can say anything.

Me:  Watch my computer get hacked and everybody finds out who this is.

Them:  Gladys Knight thinks she’s better than everyone.

Me:  So you do think that though?

Them:  Not that I’m better, but--I mean, even when I did theater that was a hard part about
watching theater.  You’re just--for me anyway--you’re just jealous all the time.

Me:  I can identify with that.

Them:  And you don’t want to be, and people tell you not to be, but then we all participate in
this system where it’s, like, designed to create competition and animosity and, um, that jealousy,
you know?

Me:  Yeah.

Them:  Like when they say there’s unlimted happiness in the world.  Okay, well, there might be,
but there aren’t unlimited acting jobs.

Me:  Right.

Them:  So it’s hard to achieve inner peace when you’re battling it out constantly to stay relevant.

Me:  Was it a relief when you walked away?

Them:  Yes and no.  Like we were saying, it’s like a break-up or divorce--

Me:  So as someone who’s gotten a divorce--

Them:  It was eerily similar for me.

Me:  Really?

Them:  Yeah. And, oh my god I can’t believe I’m saying this, but--the divorce might have been easier.

Me:  Oh my god.

Them:  Just because I was sure the divorce was a good idea.

Me:  Wow.

Them:  And I...I’m still not sure if giving up theater was a good idea.

Me:  Thank you for being honest about that.

Them:  Don’t write down that I’m getting choked up about this.

Me:  I got choked up about it.

Them:  I know but you’re a mess.

Me:  I’m always a mess.

Them:  Wait, it’s anonymous, so--put that I’m crying.

Me:  They’re crying.

Them:  This is so dumb.  I have NEVER cried about this.

Me:  Well you’ve never talked about it.

Them:  It was, um--it was a huge part of my life.  Most of my life. Then it wasn’t. That’s--you have
to deal with that and I think a lot of people who walk away from this industry don’t.

Me:  I just can’t imagine no longer having a creative outlet.

Them:  That’s tough.  It is.

Me:  Does it make you a--ugh, I’m sorry--a meaner person?

Them:  It can, yeah.  I’m not the SAME person I was before, and, um, in some ways I’m maybe
better, but there are many ways where I’m worse.

Me:  And you acknowledge that?

Them:  Oh yeah.

Me:  What kind of ways?

Them:  Well, like you said earlier, if you’re creative you have to create or it’s like this thing--

Me:  Rotting inside you.

Them:  That’s extreme.

Me:  (Laughs.)  I’m brutal.

Them:  But, um, yeah, it’s something you have to deal with and work on and find another way of
expressing yourself, but also, you did find a way.  You found theater. Then you walked away from it.
And for some people--for me--that was it. I never tried to be creative again because I only ever
really wanted to be creative in the theater.

Me:  Nothing else interested you?

Them:  Okay this is the other thing people were saying to you online that I was dying over--
What are these other things you can do once you leave theater?

Me:  RIGHT?

Them:  Like--fly planes or something?

Me:  Collect stamps?

Them:  Oh my god.

Me:  I didn’t want to be mean when people were saying that but--

Them:  Like, be honest though.  Say to the person--You’re going to walk away from theater and
you’re going to lead a boring life and that might be okay but don’t make it sound like there are all
these other adventures out there for you because most people have one thing they really love to
do and when you give it up, you’re done.

Me:  Yeah, I know I would be done.  There’d be no taxidermy.

Them:  (Laughs.)  No serial killing?

Me:  Nope.

Them:  I had kids too so that was a whole thing.

Me:  Do you think that stopped you from exploring other paths or whatever?

Them:  Yeah, because I was f---ing tired all the time.  Can I swear?

Me:  You just did.

Them:  Do that thing with that dashes so they don’t know.

Me:  They always know.

Them:  I hate when you do that anyway.

Me:  With the dashes?

Them:  Yeah.

Me:  And some people yell at me when I swear.

Them:  You can’t please everyone.

Me:  It’s true.

Them:  So where are you with quitting?  Is it like 50/50?

Me:  Uh...it’s hard to say.  It changes from day-to-day.  Like, I’m directing something right now and
I’m having fun, but tomorrow I’m going to get an e-mail from an actor where they want to have an
eighty-minute meeting about something another said to them in a tone they didn’t like and I’m going
to want to blow my brains out the back of my head.

Them:  Yeah that’ll make you want to quit.  I get that.

Me:  Is it bad that after doing theater for this long I now hate communicating with people?

Them:  Uh.

Me:  That can’t be good, right?  Like for me as an artist.

Them:  No, it’s not good, but you know, dealing with people will make you hate people.

Me:  That’s true.

Them:  And theater is nothing but people.

Me:  It’s nothing but dealing with people.

Them:  And people are getting worse.

Me:  They really are.  And I feel bad, because it’s the world, but still--

Them:  But still--shut the f--- up.

Me:  RIGHT?

Them:  Don’t you want to say that sometimes when you get those ‘We need a meeting’ e-mails
you were talking about?  Don’t you just want to be like ‘Shut the f--- up?’

Me:  I do.  Every time I do.  Sometimes I just say it.

Them:  How does that go?

Me:  Um, not well.

Them:  (Laughs.)  That’s great.

Me:  Not well at all.

Them:  I’ll send out those e-mails if you want.

Me:  The ‘Shut the f--- up’ e-mails?

Them:  I can do that for you.

Me:  Thank you so much.

Them:  Anything for you.

Me:  Okay, last question, because I know you’re hungry.

Them:  Write down that you promised to buy me lunch.

Me:  Okay, so, would you--would you consider coming back?

Them:  Um, yes.  I--I always hoped that this, um, break wouldn’t be forever.

Me:  But has it been longer than you thought it would be?

Them:  Yes.

Me:  But you want to come back one day?

Them:  Yeah, but I think it’ll be hard.

Me:  Having been out of it for so long?

Them:  Yes, because I was not all that confident in myself before and so if I were to come back
I’d have to, like, start from scratch with that part of it, and that’s scary to think about.

Me:  Hey--I love you.

Them:  I love you.

Me:  And just so you know, you are super f---ing talented whether or not you’re still doing theater
or not.  You were one of the most talented people I knew.

Them:  Are you trying to make me cry again?

Me:  Yes.

Them:  You’re an a--hole.

Me:  I know, but I mean it.  You were really talented.

Them:  But you didn’t tell me not to quit.

Me:  You’re right.  I’m sorry. I should have.

Them:  It’s okay.

Me:  Do you want to tell me not to quit?

Them:  No, I think you need to quit.

Me:  (Laughs.)  Okay, so that’s a hundred votes for quit.

Them:  I hope I was the deciding vote.

Me:  We’ll see.

Them:  What did your Mom say?  That was great. What you said in the video.

Me:  You can quit if you want to, but don’t quit.

Them:  That’s great.

Me:  My mom is great.

Them:  So that’s what I’ll say to you.  You can quit if you want to, but don’t quit.

Me:  Thanks.  Thank you.

Them:  We done?

Me:  Yeah, we’re done.  This is going to take me three days to transcribe.

Them:  Good. That’s your punishment for getting everybody worked up.

Me:  Fair enough.

Them:  That’s what you should quit doing.

Me:  Getting everybody all worked up?

Them:  Yes.

Me:  Forget it.  I’ll never give that up.

Them:  (Laughs.)  Okay.

Me:  Pissing people off?  That’s my real passion.

Them:  Honestly that’s your destiny.

• “Them” used to do theater and was f---ing awesome at it.