Theater and the Gatekeepers

For this week’s anonymous conversation, we’re heading 
back to the theater to talk about gatekeepers.

Not sure what I mean?

Then keep reading.

Here’s the interview:

ME:  How are you?

THEM:  I’m great.  Thanks for doing this.

ME:  This was an interview by request.

THEM:  It was.  Do you get many of those?

ME:  This is the first that I’ve actually--where I’ve actually
 turned around and been like ‘Yeah, let’s do that.’

THEM:  Wow, I’m honored.

ME:  You should be.  Anyone who talks to me should feel
 honored.

THEM:  So everyone then?  All you do is talk to people.

ME:  Rude but fair.  So I was confused at first when you 
asked me to do an interview on gatekeepers--

THEM:  You didn’t know what I meant.

ME:  I did as soon as you started explaining it.

THEM:  Should I explain it again?

ME:  For the sake of the readers.

THEM:  Okay, so--it’s more of a feeling than a group of 
people even though that’s what it sounds like.

ME:  Right.

THEM:  I guess the best way to describe it is, um, so I was 
a big part of a theater scene in the Midwest.

ME:  A very notable theater community.

THEM:  Yeah. And, I was doing shows on a, you know, 
mid-sized range, getting work that way, but, you know, 
everybody wants to work at the big houses, right?  Like, 
with hundreds of seats.

ME:  To make a living.

THEM:  Yeah, I mean, for me, it was making a living, but 
even more than that, it was just wanting to perform for as 
many people as possible.  Wanting to share my talent with
 that many people. I mean, I did one show once, it was 
when I first got to the city, and the company was small, 
but it was at this outdoor venue, so none of us got paid, 
but uh, there were, like, hundreds of people watching us
 each night, and that felt like exactly what I wanted to do. 
 I loved that.

ME:  But it didn’t happen again?

THEM:  No, and, you know, when I would go to some of
 the bigger theaters, to see shows, or whatever, I would
 just have this feeling that I was, um, unwelcome?  Not
 in a malicious way, but just like--Like these were places
 that were inaccessible to me as an artists.

ME:  Uh huh.

THEM:  I would meet with some of the Artistic Directors,
 other people in the community who were--who I felt were--
really, like, capable of helping me elevate myself and advance
 myself--and it just always felt like I was talking to walls.  I 
mean, you know, they were nice people, but it was like--
Nothing would come of it. Of me talking with them. It always
 felt like--like those conversations were them doing me a favor
 and, uh, it was like--Hey, I have something to offer here.  I’m
 not asking for a handout. I want to collaborate with you. Isn’t
 that what we always talk about? Collaboration?

ME:  We talk about it.

THEM:  It just felt like rather than having channels where, uh, 
you could, you know, make your case, make your argument, 
there were people--

ME:  Gatekeepers.

THEM:  Yeah--who would, like, give you a ‘Yes’ or a ‘No’ and
 that was it.  If it was a ‘No,’ then you were never really going 
to go anywhere other than where you were, and I know a lot 
of people who really, uh, broke down because of that.  That
 feeling. Because they didn’t understand it. Like, nobody 
comes right out and says to you ‘Oh, it’s not going to happen 
for you because I don’t like this and this and this about you.’  
So you’re never sure, you know? And sometimes they change
 their minds, and you wind up getting a job at one of the bigger
 places--

ME:  That’s what happened to you, right?

THEM:  Yeah, but then after that--like, nobody explained to 
me how I worked years and kept getting great reviews in
 these smaller shows, then all of a sudden I’m the lead at
 this place I’ve been trying to work at forever, and it goes well, 
everybody likes me, I think, and I’m even invited to this, like, 
private party at the Artistic Director’s house, and he has this
 big long conversation with me about life and stuff, and I think
 everything’s great, and then--I’m never cast there again.  And
 I even reach out to him just to make sure I didn’t say something
 stupid and he’s like-- No, I want to work with you again when the 
right project comes along.  And it’s like--Dude, what does that
 even mean?

ME:  What about me is so unusual that you have to find the 
perfect play--

THEM:  It’s just, like, come on man.  Be straight with me.

ME:  And to be clear, you could have done something stupid.

THEM:  But just tell me that.

ME:  I just want everyone reading to know that I’m not saying 
you’re not a big idiot who nobody wants to cast.

THEM:  Yeah, I really am a huge idiot--but I’m a good actor.

ME:  And you’re still acting.

THEM:  I haven’t given up.  I’m just really in a funk and your
 interviews were really getting me going, because I wanted
 to say, like, this is definitely an industry problem overall, but
 I moved to New York last year, and I’ve been working pretty 
consistently so it makes me wonder--

ME:  Is it worse at a regional level?

THEM:  I really think it is.  It sounds nuts, but I really think it’s
 so much harder.  Just because the ratio of jobs to talent--
I mean, in New York, it’s bad.  Don’t get me wrong. It’s really
 bad. But at least there’s always--like, there’s so much 
opportunity if you’re just looking to stay busy and keep 
working on projects.  Back where I was, the opportunities
 just weren’t there. I mean, they were there, but, like, access, 
right? Only a small number of, um, people were given access.

ME:  And so it didn’t get you to quit, but you did move?

THEM:  I didn’t feel like I had a choice.

ME:  But other people just gave up?

THEM:  A bunch, yeah.  I mean, not everybody can--you know--
is able to just do what I did.  And some people are--some people 
are still working, but feel--like, their spirit isn’t in it anymore, you 
know?  They feel stuck. Nobody’s looking after--I mean, these 
people--these people who are, like, top tier in their, uh, creative
 community?  They should be looking out for, like, not just the
 five or six people they like directing in plays or acting with, 
okay? They should be looking out for the soul of their community.
  What the spirit is. When I left mine, it was bad.  It was really bad. 
 And you could feel it. You got a bunch of theater artists in a room
 together and the energy was just--I mean, it was just tense.  
There was no camaraderie. There was no, like, excitement. 
 It was just a lot of bad feelings and, um, resentment and remorse.

ME:  Sounds like my family reunions.

THEM:  (Laughs.)  But, like, you know what I’m talking about?

ME:  Oh yeah, I identify with a lot of what you’re saying.

THEM:  Do you have that in Rhode Island?

ME:  I think, like you said, you have gatekeepers everywhere.

THEM:  You seem like a gatekeeper to me?

ME:  I guess anyone who has their own company would be a
 gatekeeper.

THEM:  So what do you do in terms of, um--

ME:  Letting people through the gate?

THEM:  (Laughs)  Yeah.

ME:  I like to keep talented people busy--even if it’s not with me. 
 But, at the same time, if I see someone working constantly, it 
does give me pause, because of how many people aren’t 
working at all.  I think there needs to be more balance. It’s
 also about communicating with other people in my position
 and saying ‘Hey, this person is amazing and I only have one
 thing for them this season, but you should use them in your 
season.  They’re great.’

THEM:  And what about you just as you?  Like, an actor?

ME:  I think people assume I should just be happy giving myself
 work.

THEM:  Really?

ME:  Yeah, I mean, I used to joke that when I was trying to act
 and have my own company, I would walk into an audition 
and people would just stare at me.  But then it’s a lose-lose
 because if you give yourself roles--

THEM:  They complain about that too.

ME:  And also, I have a big mouth.  People are not fans of
 that--for the most part.

THEM:  You think that cost you work?

ME:  I think--I never really saw the point in watching what I 
saw, because that was my whole life up to a certain point. 
 I tried really hard to just please everybody and then I found
 I just couldn’t do that anymore if it meant feeling a certain 
way about something and keeping my mouth shut about it. 
 I just couldn’t do it. Now, I think, or I’d like to think, that over 
the years I’ve gotten better at how I say things, but I still say
 them, and anyway, the damage has been done, to some 
extent, in terms of people’s perceptions of me.

THEM:  So you pissed off the gatekeepers?

ME:  I’m sure I’ve pissed off a few gatekeepers, yeah.  What
 you said about being in a room and feeling that sort of--
unwelcome feeling.  I’ve definitely felt that in the past. Of
 all the things that would make me want to say ‘Screw it’ 
and become a nature guide instead of a theater person--
that would be it.

THEM:  Because it’s the f&#$&-ing worst feeling, man.

ME:  And it could all be in your head.

THEM:  It could be, but--

ME:  It’s not.

THEM:  I know it’s not.  We know it’s not. Because we’ve 
been on the other side of it.  I’ve been backstage listening to--
’Oh, this person is here tonight.  Ugh. Why? Why are they 
here?’ And maybe they’re entitled to feel that way about that 
person, but--

ME:  But why do you care who’s here?  Unless they’re 
storming the stage.

THEM:  Yeah, but also, in the theaters I’ve worked at, the
 stage is a foot away from you.

ME:  (Laughs.)  You can see the pariahs.

THEM:  They’re right there.

ME:  Should have got a better gate.

THEM:  Dude, at some of those places?  We couldn’t 
afford a gate.

ME:  That’s the way to end the interview.

THEM:  Yeah, let’s just stop there.

Them is originally from the Midwest, but now lives and acts in New York.