This week, I'm talking with one of my really good friends.
No big controversy this time around, just a discussion about how doing theater can be exhausting even when you're not doing it.
Here's the interview:
ME: How long have we known each other?
THEM: Too long.
ME: (Laughs.) It's going to be one of THOSE interviews.
THEM: I'm going to wreck you.
ME: Bring it on.
THEM: The Wolf's got nothing on me.
ME: It's true. You probably could destroy me.
THEM: I know so many things.
ME: But I know a lot about you.
THEM: We're not really friends. We just know too much about each other and now there's no going back.
ME: (Laughs.) I want to talk--
THEM: Are you in New York right now?
ME: I am.
THEM: How's that?
ME: It's raining. I hate everything.
THEM: It is not fun there when it rains.
ME: Take a city covered in garbage and add water. Now walk through it.
THEM: Very excited for you.
ME: Let's talk about being on.
THEM: Like we are now?
ME: I know. We're very on right now.
THEM: I feel like I'm always on.
ME: Me too. Except when I'm completely alone and even then--
THEM: Even then.
ME: Have you become more aware of it lately?
THEM: Yeah, I--I really started thinking a lot about it when I started dating the guy I'm with now. He would say to me, 'What are you doing right now? Why are you doing this act?' I didn't think it was an act. I thought it was me.
ME: You thought it was your identity?
THEM: Yeah. Life of the party. Making everybody laugh. Big personality.
ME: But your boyfriend didn't think so?
THEM: He didn't think it was genuine. At first, I thought he was just another guy--another person--trying to stifle me. Someone who couldn't handle me. Then I started doing some reflecting, and I realized that I was really tired. I was exhausted being the person I thought I was. It didn't occur to me that if I was just being myself, it shouldn't be tiring me out that much.
ME: Not that being yourself isn't exhausting sometimes--
THEM: This was work though. It really felt like work once I started taking a step back from it to say 'What if I just sit here at this party and don't say anything? What if I just relax?'
ME: How was that for you? Did you try it?
THEM: Yeah. People were going 'What's wrong? What's wrong with you?'
ME: (Laughs.) Yup.
THEM: They wanted a show. It's not their fault. That's what they were used to. I said, 'I'm okay.' But it was weird for people. I could tell it was.
ME: For me, I had been at my theater all day, greeting people, talking to people, being on, and I went to this party after that I thought was going to be this little party, but it ended up being a big party, and I didn't realize what my own head-space was at that point--that I needed to just keep to myself for a little bit and regroup after all that socializing--but I get there, and right away, it just felt like people were all over me. 'Hey what's up? How was the show? What show you working on? How are you?' and...I just wanted someone to say, 'Hey, he just came from the theater. He just spent all afternoon talking to people. Just let him sit down and relax.' I had to leave. I did leave.
THEM: You did?
ME: I couldn't be there. I felt like people wanted me to be on and I wasn't going to be able to do that and the next thing I know, I can't breathe.
THEM: You had a panic attack?
ME: I don't know if that was it. I just--I just wanted people to understand what had just happened to me without me needing to tell them. Something about communicating what I needed--which was just to be left alone for a second--I didn't know a polite way of doing that.
THEM: I've learned how to ask for it. Therapy helped with that.
ME: Same here.
THEM: It became about figuring out if I'm enough when I'm not taking up all the air in the room. Am I still a person if I'm just in the corner enjoying myself but not--not dominating every conversation--
ME: You can still have a personality even if it's not a big personality.
THEM: People never believe it--that I--that now I consider myself to be pretty quiet. That I think all these years I've been a hidden introvert.
ME: One of the things I've taken from therapy is that so much of why I wanted to act was because I felt in control when I was acting. Or just doing theater in general. It was a place where I had everything I needed that I didn't feel like I had in my life--stability, organization, routine--
THEM: Then outside of theater, how are you in social environments?
ME: Well, see, this is what I learned--I was trying to turn my entire life into a theater. Any--every situation--I would be like--Okay, can I apply theater here? Because I know what to do in the context--in the world of theater. I started to think of who I was as a--as a character. I'd go to a wedding and think, 'You're a character. You're a wedding guest. You're a charming wedding guest with all these funny stories.' I couldn't just be at the wedding.
THEM: Why not?
ME: Because there's a powerlessness in being out in the world where you're just another person who's going to show up somewhere and leave and, uh--
THEM: Do you worry about not being seen?
ME: Seen and remembered, yeah.
THEM: I wanted to know where I belonged. I wanted to feel like--People want me here.
ME: Exactly.
THEM: Are you better at letting people know who you are now?
ME: Not really.
THEM: (Laughs.) That's honest.
ME: I'm trying, but you know, people have known me for a long time. I don't think you can just pull the rug out from under them and say--"Please let me be this person at this time." Because that's really what it is. Sometimes I do enjoy being on. It depends on the situation.
THEM: My dad has a hard time just letting me be.
ME: Really?
THEM: He's proud of me and he wants me to perform whenever he has people over and I try not to let it bother me, but finally I said, 'I'm not doing that anymore. I'm not the tv. I'm a person.'
ME: I--it's different--but I have people in my life who--The best way I can describe it is, I'll go somewhere, and people will say 'Don't be on' or something like that. You know what I mean. And I'll go 'Okay' and then I'm quiet, and it's like with you, where eventually they look at me and say 'Well, you can TALK just don't be on' and I don't know how to do that. I know how to be big and I know how to be small. I don't know what the middle is. I'm working on trying to find the middle, but I haven't found it yet, and it's tough when it's being--demanded of me.
THEM: I get that. I'm not good at the middle either. But I'm not always in your position of having people expect it of me. I think people are glad that I'm not always chewing the scenery now.
ME: Has thinking about this affected how you perform?
THEM: It has me thinking about why I perform. Do I need to be doing theater to be seen? It's something I ask myself.
ME: Conversely, I know people who should be doing theater because they're just walking around like they're in a play nobody's watching.
THEM: It goes back to--What do you have to say and are you saying it or are you just talking for the sake of hearing yourself talk? Making noise so other people know you're there. People with--My boyfriend reminds me of this a lot, because he's this kind of person--People with something to say can get it across without shouting it.
ME: Can they? It seems like that's becoming more difficult.
THEM: But you don't want to just be adding to the noise, you know?
ME: Yeah.
THEM: So are you trying to tell me Kevin Broccoli doesn't like to talk?
ME: (Laughs.) No, I like it. I just used to have more to say. For a long time, for a big part of my life, nobody listened to me, and so when they finally started to listen, I felt like I had to get it all out before they stopped listening. Now I--I still have things to say, but I feel like, 'Okay, I've said it. Whether or not they listen isn't really something I can control.'
THEM: And you've got to just accept that.
ME: We should start a group where a bunch of creative types just sit around quietly and aren't expected to do anything.
THEM: That sounds so good. Can there be nice chairs with pillows?
ME: Kittens. Just pets walking around we can pet.
THEM: I love this.
ME: I'm making a Facebook event for it now.
THEM: Invite me. I'm there.
ME: Finally something productive comes out of one of these interviews.
Them is an actor who is trying not to chew the scenery.
No big controversy this time around, just a discussion about how doing theater can be exhausting even when you're not doing it.
Here's the interview:
ME: How long have we known each other?
THEM: Too long.
ME: (Laughs.) It's going to be one of THOSE interviews.
THEM: I'm going to wreck you.
ME: Bring it on.
THEM: The Wolf's got nothing on me.
ME: It's true. You probably could destroy me.
THEM: I know so many things.
ME: But I know a lot about you.
THEM: We're not really friends. We just know too much about each other and now there's no going back.
ME: (Laughs.) I want to talk--
THEM: Are you in New York right now?
ME: I am.
THEM: How's that?
ME: It's raining. I hate everything.
THEM: It is not fun there when it rains.
ME: Take a city covered in garbage and add water. Now walk through it.
THEM: Very excited for you.
ME: Let's talk about being on.
THEM: Like we are now?
ME: I know. We're very on right now.
THEM: I feel like I'm always on.
ME: Me too. Except when I'm completely alone and even then--
THEM: Even then.
ME: Have you become more aware of it lately?
THEM: Yeah, I--I really started thinking a lot about it when I started dating the guy I'm with now. He would say to me, 'What are you doing right now? Why are you doing this act?' I didn't think it was an act. I thought it was me.
ME: You thought it was your identity?
THEM: Yeah. Life of the party. Making everybody laugh. Big personality.
ME: But your boyfriend didn't think so?
THEM: He didn't think it was genuine. At first, I thought he was just another guy--another person--trying to stifle me. Someone who couldn't handle me. Then I started doing some reflecting, and I realized that I was really tired. I was exhausted being the person I thought I was. It didn't occur to me that if I was just being myself, it shouldn't be tiring me out that much.
ME: Not that being yourself isn't exhausting sometimes--
THEM: This was work though. It really felt like work once I started taking a step back from it to say 'What if I just sit here at this party and don't say anything? What if I just relax?'
ME: How was that for you? Did you try it?
THEM: Yeah. People were going 'What's wrong? What's wrong with you?'
ME: (Laughs.) Yup.
THEM: They wanted a show. It's not their fault. That's what they were used to. I said, 'I'm okay.' But it was weird for people. I could tell it was.
ME: For me, I had been at my theater all day, greeting people, talking to people, being on, and I went to this party after that I thought was going to be this little party, but it ended up being a big party, and I didn't realize what my own head-space was at that point--that I needed to just keep to myself for a little bit and regroup after all that socializing--but I get there, and right away, it just felt like people were all over me. 'Hey what's up? How was the show? What show you working on? How are you?' and...I just wanted someone to say, 'Hey, he just came from the theater. He just spent all afternoon talking to people. Just let him sit down and relax.' I had to leave. I did leave.
THEM: You did?
ME: I couldn't be there. I felt like people wanted me to be on and I wasn't going to be able to do that and the next thing I know, I can't breathe.
THEM: You had a panic attack?
ME: I don't know if that was it. I just--I just wanted people to understand what had just happened to me without me needing to tell them. Something about communicating what I needed--which was just to be left alone for a second--I didn't know a polite way of doing that.
THEM: I've learned how to ask for it. Therapy helped with that.
ME: Same here.
THEM: It became about figuring out if I'm enough when I'm not taking up all the air in the room. Am I still a person if I'm just in the corner enjoying myself but not--not dominating every conversation--
ME: You can still have a personality even if it's not a big personality.
THEM: People never believe it--that I--that now I consider myself to be pretty quiet. That I think all these years I've been a hidden introvert.
ME: One of the things I've taken from therapy is that so much of why I wanted to act was because I felt in control when I was acting. Or just doing theater in general. It was a place where I had everything I needed that I didn't feel like I had in my life--stability, organization, routine--
THEM: Then outside of theater, how are you in social environments?
ME: Well, see, this is what I learned--I was trying to turn my entire life into a theater. Any--every situation--I would be like--Okay, can I apply theater here? Because I know what to do in the context--in the world of theater. I started to think of who I was as a--as a character. I'd go to a wedding and think, 'You're a character. You're a wedding guest. You're a charming wedding guest with all these funny stories.' I couldn't just be at the wedding.
THEM: Why not?
ME: Because there's a powerlessness in being out in the world where you're just another person who's going to show up somewhere and leave and, uh--
THEM: Do you worry about not being seen?
ME: Seen and remembered, yeah.
THEM: I wanted to know where I belonged. I wanted to feel like--People want me here.
ME: Exactly.
THEM: Are you better at letting people know who you are now?
ME: Not really.
THEM: (Laughs.) That's honest.
ME: I'm trying, but you know, people have known me for a long time. I don't think you can just pull the rug out from under them and say--"Please let me be this person at this time." Because that's really what it is. Sometimes I do enjoy being on. It depends on the situation.
THEM: My dad has a hard time just letting me be.
ME: Really?
THEM: He's proud of me and he wants me to perform whenever he has people over and I try not to let it bother me, but finally I said, 'I'm not doing that anymore. I'm not the tv. I'm a person.'
ME: I--it's different--but I have people in my life who--The best way I can describe it is, I'll go somewhere, and people will say 'Don't be on' or something like that. You know what I mean. And I'll go 'Okay' and then I'm quiet, and it's like with you, where eventually they look at me and say 'Well, you can TALK just don't be on' and I don't know how to do that. I know how to be big and I know how to be small. I don't know what the middle is. I'm working on trying to find the middle, but I haven't found it yet, and it's tough when it's being--demanded of me.
THEM: I get that. I'm not good at the middle either. But I'm not always in your position of having people expect it of me. I think people are glad that I'm not always chewing the scenery now.
ME: Has thinking about this affected how you perform?
THEM: It has me thinking about why I perform. Do I need to be doing theater to be seen? It's something I ask myself.
ME: Conversely, I know people who should be doing theater because they're just walking around like they're in a play nobody's watching.
THEM: It goes back to--What do you have to say and are you saying it or are you just talking for the sake of hearing yourself talk? Making noise so other people know you're there. People with--My boyfriend reminds me of this a lot, because he's this kind of person--People with something to say can get it across without shouting it.
ME: Can they? It seems like that's becoming more difficult.
THEM: But you don't want to just be adding to the noise, you know?
ME: Yeah.
THEM: So are you trying to tell me Kevin Broccoli doesn't like to talk?
ME: (Laughs.) No, I like it. I just used to have more to say. For a long time, for a big part of my life, nobody listened to me, and so when they finally started to listen, I felt like I had to get it all out before they stopped listening. Now I--I still have things to say, but I feel like, 'Okay, I've said it. Whether or not they listen isn't really something I can control.'
THEM: And you've got to just accept that.
ME: We should start a group where a bunch of creative types just sit around quietly and aren't expected to do anything.
THEM: That sounds so good. Can there be nice chairs with pillows?
ME: Kittens. Just pets walking around we can pet.
THEM: I love this.
ME: I'm making a Facebook event for it now.
THEM: Invite me. I'm there.
ME: Finally something productive comes out of one of these interviews.
Them is an actor who is trying not to chew the scenery.
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