In February of 2019, I started this series of theater interviews to deal with my own struggle with a passion I've had since I was eight-years-old.
What you're reading is the beginning of the final stretch of interviews I'll be doing in this series. I'm not saying I'll never return to it, but I have a new project I want to undertake that I'm very excited about.
The work we have to do to make the theater a better place is far from over, but while we're all sidelined due to the pandemic, a lot of that work is going to be theoretical in nature.
I look forward to continuing to have conversations privately with friends, colleagues, and new acquaintances about how we can aim for a new better.
But before I put the cart before the horse, let's kick off these final interviews.
So far, most of the interviews I've done have either fallen on the side of meaningful or entertaining. I think at first glance these last few may appear to be the latter, but upon working on them, I think they may have more value than you'd think, although I do find them to be very entertaining.
Also, they're the first international interviews I've done if you don't count Canada.
It proves that we're all dealing with very similar problems, and that means we can find solutions anywhere.
Here's the interview:
ME: How big is your community?
THEM: It's not very big. We have the three or four big theaters. We have several others. Beautiful place to live.
ME: Everybody knows everybody?
THEM: Yes. We all mix and see each other at this event or that. This was all back when we could roam around to see each other.
ME: Do you see all the theater there?
THEM: I see most of it. I get to what I can.
ME: What's your position in the community?
THEM: As much as I have one, it's--I'm an actor. That's what I do.
ME: When was the show in question?
THEM: What a crime. The show in question.
ME: I don't know how else to put it.
THEM: Not leading up to a brawl this time, are we?
ME: You tell me.
THEM: No brawl, no brawl. The show was in November of last year.
ME: And what we're going to talk about happened after the show.
THEM: The very end.
ME: The show is over. The audience is clapping.
THEM: People stood up.
ME: Did you stand up?
THEM: I did not.
ME: Why not?
THEM: How is it there? Do people stand quite often?
ME: I would say we do, yeah.
THEM: People didn't used to be known to stand here very often. It was infrequent. You would stand for exceptional productions and performances.
ME: So you didn't think the production was exceptional?
THEM: I didn't think any of the performances were either.
ME: Okay then.
THEM: They were good. I think across the board--good. There's good and great. Then there's exceptional.
ME: So you didn't even think the show was great?
THEM: (Laughs.) No, I did not.
ME: Okay.
THEM: I don't think anybody else thought that either.
ME: But you were the only one who didn't give a standing ovation?
THEM: I couldn't tell at the time, but it seems that's how it was.
ME: And where were you sitting?
THEM: In the front row.
ME: Not the best place to be abstaining from a standing ovation.
THEM: No. That's true.
ME: Did you consider standing anyway?
THEM: Why would I do that?
ME: To be polite?
THEM: I applauded the effort. Impolite would have been not doing anything.
ME: But one of the actors saw you not applauding?
THEM: Someone I had worked with on a previous show at another theater.
ME: And they asked you about it after?
THEM: They asked me in the lobby, actually.
ME: What did you say?
THEM: I laughed it off. I thought it was a foolish question.
ME: But do you remember what you said?
THEM: I remember saying I don't stand very often.
ME: Do you?
THEM: I don't. My, uh, the person I was talking to knew that about me. The trouble was, one of her castmates, who I did not know well, she was standing there, and she was listening, and she became very irate, and told me that I was rude for not standing.
ME: So it goes back to polite and impolite.
THEM: Which is foolish.
ME: So you argued the point?
THEM: I did. Politely.
ME: Did they think the show was exceptional?
THEM: This woman who was arguing with me did, apparently. She was quite upset. My friend was not so. He was able to laugh about it. But it did get heated, and the director of the show came over to ask that we quiet down a bit as people were trying to have a good time, and I made my exit.
ME: And you thought that was it?
THEM: I did.
ME: Then what happened?
THEM: I received a phone call from someone at the theater telling me I was no longer welcome there.
ME: What?
THEM: Yes. Outrageous, isn't it?
ME: What did you say?
THEM: I asked why. Had my credit card bounced and the ticket wasn't paid for properly? No. I was told I had behaved badly and then caused a scene. I had not caused a scene, but--
ME: Who was the person calling you?
THEM: They sent in some lackey. It wasn't the general manager, but it was someone right under him.
ME: Problematic theater people love delegating lately.
THEM: Don't they though?
ME: Used to be an Artistic Director just grew a spine and picked up the phone, but I guess not anymore.
THEM: I rang him right up.
ME: The AD at the theater?
THEM: I did. I said 'What's this about?' 'You were being rude.' 'How so?' 'You were making a scene.' I thought he was talking about the lobby. He was talking about in the theater.
ME: He considered you not standing up causing a scene?
THEM: Yes!
ME: Wow.
THEM: I told him that, as far as I knew, it was optional as to whether or not you had to stand up after a show. I was told that everyone had worked very hard and that I was being an ass by sitting there, mocking--He accused me of mocking them.
ME: How?
THEM: Said I was smirking, or--He had all manner of charges to levy against me. When he was done--It sounded like he was foaming at the mouth, I thanked him for speaking with me, and hung up the phone.
ME: But that didn't end things?
THEM: No, because once I sat with it for a day, I called some friends, and we all decided we were going to go to the theater and see the very next performance and not stand up at the end.
ME: So you were going to trespass?
THEM: I was going to, but my beautiful girlfriend talked me out of it, but many of my friends did go, and they did refuse to stand at the end, and word got to the Artistic Director and some of the actors, and there started to be fighting online and that sort of thing.
ME: Did the protests continue?
THEM: I wouldn't say they were protests, but yes, and it got to a point where people were standing up and turning their backs to the actors at the end, which I did think was extreme. I would not have gone that far.
ME: So this really set off a kind of explosion?
THEM: I think people were just sick of the false praise. The everybody-gets-a-trophy syndrome that--I'm as liberal as they come, but there is a bit of that in theater, isn't there? All good words, all the time, and taking it a step further, effusive praise for everyone and everything or you're a cynic and a--They'd say hater. Someone called me a hater. It's out of control.
ME: I still love the word 'hater.' I just find it funny.
THEM: It is rather funny, but in the midst of all this, it was getting--People were losing their minds over it.
ME: Did it make you regret not standing up?
THEM: No. I regret applauding now.
ME: Applauding at all?
THEM: Yes. F--- the lot of them. That's how I feel now.
ME: Did you say to me on the phone that people from that theater were going to other theaters and not applauding?
THEM: Yes. As I said, out of control. The boss of the theater--of all the theaters--should have stepped in and said 'This is childish. People can respond to a show how they like. That's that.' That didn't happen. Instead we had anarchy.
ME: How were things right before everything shut down?
THEM: In some ways, the pandemic was a--You don't want to say anything positive about it, but I did feel we had reached a breaking point, and that forced everyone to go to their corners and cool off a bit.
ME: Do you think it'll be better once you're all up and running again?
THEM: We've been doing little shows here and there, but cases are climbing again--
ME: How were the shows you did?
THEM: They were all right. I haven't seen any. Only the ones the theaters I still associate with have done.
ME: So there's still this break between the theaters?
THEM: Yes.
ME: Because you wouldn't stand up?
THEM: I wouldn't put it all on me--
ME: No, I'm not trying to. My next question was going to be if you think this was just a stand-in moment so that the community could--
THEM: There were--If you look at it, there had to be underlying tension there. This might have brought that out. I think that goes on with all communities. Some little thing breaks the dam and then everybody uses that time to air out their grievances. It just so happens we have some deeper grievances than I was aware of before I stayed seated.
ME: I'm going to be talking with other people in the community about this. Do you have any advice for me?
THEM: Just convey to them that I'm not sorry and I will most likely never stand up again for anyone as a matter of principle, which is how many people used to behave at the theater. It was unthinkable that you would see more than one or two things in your lifetime worthy of a standing ovation. Unheard of.
ME: So you're doubling down?
THEM: I am.
ME: That's always the best place to start.
Them is an actor who enjoys remaining in their seat.
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