Theater and New York

Today’s anonymous conversation is all about the city that never

sleeps because it does too much cocaine.

This is all about New York.

Here’s the interview:

Me:  So you lived in New York for--twelve years?

Them:  Yes.

Me:  And now you live in Chicago?

Them:  Yes.

Me:  So what brought on the move?

Them:  Well, I had just finished doing a play in New York, and there

wasn’t anything else on the horizon, and a few of my friends were

working on projects in Chicago that I found really interesting--that I

heard about and thought sounded interesting--and I just, uh, I thought,

well, let me go out there for a little bit and try that out.

Me:  That’s pretty bold.

Them:  Yeah, I had--I was doing okay in New York--like, enough

where I shouldn’t be complaining, but I was just always at the

mercy of taking whatever job came my way, and so, I didn’t have

a lot of say in creating a destiny for myself as an artist.

Me:  I would be remiss if I didn’t tease you a little bit for saying--

Them:  Destiny as an artist.  I know.

Me:  But can you talk a little more about that.  I’ve just never heard

anyone say that before.

Them:  So--there’s two kinds of--Okay, so in my mind, there are

people who are solely interested in being performers and people

who are only interested in being artists, and some who want to

be both.  And wanting to be either is okay. Whatever you want

for yourself, that’s amazing. Go for it. I had been strictly a

performer for a long time. I had done cruises, national tours,

and it was all really amazing and put me on some solid footing

moneywise, and um, then I just started wanting more, you know?

 I went to school for acting. I felt like I wasn’t really stretching

myself. And I’m aware that I’m really privileged that I could even

begin to think that way, but it’s just something I was interested in

for myself. So I started pursuing more opportunities like that--

Me:  Where you could sort of feed the more artistic side of yourself?

Them:  And it isn’t that cruises and tours aren’t artistic, it’s just that

I had done that, and it’s a different animal.  It works a different

muscle. And I wanted to try other things.

Me:  How did that go?

Them:  I found it really difficult in New York, because, uh, there

was a lot of focus strictly on the business and you being a person

in the business and so, a business first and an artist second.

Me:  Uh huh.

Them:  And I’m not saying this is specific to New York.  I spent

some time in L.A. and it’s even worse out there, but, um, I guess

the difference is in L.A. you don’t really notice as much and you’re

not, nobody’s really pushing you to get around to doing anything

all that fast, if that makes sense.

Me:  You’re just enjoying the weather and then a decade goes by.

Them:  Yes. But in New York, I just felt like all the conversations I

was having--even with other artists--were driven by these business

terms, and I just, uh, I got sick of having those conversations.

Me:  Why do you think the conversations have become so prevalent?

Them:  I don’t know if I’d be the person to ask--

Me:  But since I asked--

Them:  (Laughs.)  Since you asked, uh--I think there’s so much talent

out there, and so many people now, um, participating--I guess?--in

this industry, that, uh--and now I’m calling it an industry, see, even

I’m doing it--

Me:  It happens.

Them:  It’s just a way of maybe feeling like you have control.  

Knowledge is power, and artists are sort of, stereo-typically not

knowledgeable about business, right?  So it makes sense that

some people think--Well, I’m elevate myself by learning as much

as I can about this other part of the field I’m in and then maybe

that’ll give me a leg up somewhere.

Me:  Or they could take an acting class.

Them:  Ooooh, you said that.

Me:  I just think--like, I get it--as far as--there IS a lot of talent, but also,

why be like--Well, since I can’t control how talented I am, let me get

really good at Instagram.

Them:  You’re going to get in trouble for that.

Me:  (Laughs.)  But am I wrong?

Them:  You’re not wrong, but when you’re living in a city that has a

really competitive theater scene, your idea of what talent is starts to

get a little warped.

Me:  Why do you think that is?

Them:  Because a lot of untalented people get work.

Me:  Wow.

Them:  (Laughs.)  Now I’m going to get in trouble.

Me:  We’re both going to get in a lot of trouble.

Them:  So, uh, I think people who are talented kind of--give up

worrying about their craft--because they see other people who

aren’t worrying about it getting work BECAUSE they’re worried

about Instagram followers instead.  I mean, if something is working

for someone else, you’re not going to discount that. You’re going to

try whatever you think works, right?

Me:  So how many Instagram followers do you have?

Them:  Oh, I don’t have Instagram.

Me:  This interview is over.

Them:  (Laughs.)  Sorry.

Me:  Have you been advised to get more active on social media?

Them:  When I was living in New York, yes.  Many times.

Me:  But not in Chicago?

Them:  I’ve just, uh, pursued a life here and surrounded myself with

artists here that aren’t really concerned with that.  We just want to do

good work.

Me:  That sounds great.

Them:  I probably--if I’m being honest--I probably could have done the

same thing in New York.  I could have found people like that. But it

was just nice to start over.

Me:  It sounds like--maybe you and the city weren’t necessarily a good

match?

Them:  I think that’s fair.  There’s this default assumption that if you want

to succeed in theater, you have to make the move to New York.  I don’t

know if that’s still the case, but it was when I graduated school--

Me:  Same here.

Them:  Right. And the truth is, you can make art just about anywhere,

and you really should.  You really should be making art anywhere and

everywhere. Especially in the communities you’re in that you think you

need to run away from.  Instead of saying--Well, I’m going to get away

from this awful place--what we need are people staying in these

communities and creating work there.

Me:  Hi, I’m the choir.  Nice to meet you.

Them:  Of course I’m the one who fled Rhode Island.

Me:  Do you think about coming back ever?  Or did you think about

it rather than Chicago?

Them:  I would love to come back and do something there.  We

could work on something together.

Me:  That would be great.

Them:  Let’s talk after the interview.

Me:  Let’s chat after the talk.

Them:  (Laughs.)  But yeah, I just wound up in Chicago, but if I could

go back--you know, before I left Rhode Island, I was in this great play

--in this role, this great role, very easy process, easy audition, just

felt really natural, all of it--and I got to New York, and it just felt like,

uh, it felt very clear to me that--that those days were over.  Of just

things being easy and not having to worry about where the next

project was coming from. And I’m not scared of hard work, but, uh,

the truth is, you can work really hard and get nowhere, and you can

do nothing and get a big break. It’s much more about luck. And

that’s--I mean, they tell you that, but I don’t think they really--nobody

sits you down and looks you in the eye and says--It is ALL about luck.

Me:  Because less people would do it, maybe?

Them:  Yes.

Me:  But would that be a bad thing?

Them:  (Laughs.)  We’ve really--we, I mean, uh--Well, the impression

is that it can all come really easy so it’s like playing the lottery.  You

know you’re not going to win, but you figure why not?

Me:  So you play for twelve years?

Them:  Some people do.

Me:  I should clarify--I don’t think less people should do theater.  I think

less people should try to use theater as a way of getting famous.

Them:  Didn’t you say that was sort of why you were doing it for a

long time?

Me:  Oh totally.  I’m included in that.  That’s a big part of what I’ve

had to reevaluate.

Them:  So where are you with that?

Me:  Well, my therapist has really been making me reflect on what

being famous would be like and actually visualize that life for myself.

Them:  And what have you discovered?

Me:  That I would be a f#$%-ing nightmare.

Them:  (Laughs.)  So you’re good?

Me:  Oh no, I still want to be famous, it’s just now I know how bad

it would be for the world-at-large.

Them:  I would advise you not to move to New York then.

Me:  Did living there make you a bad person?

Them:  It made me a person with less patience.  Less kindness.

Less compassion. Not a bad person just not the person I needed

to be in order to create the kind of art I wanted to create.

Me:  So you feel better now?

Them:  I feel like I was on the wrong road for awhile, and now

I’m back on the right one.

Me:  That’s great.

Them:  It is. It really is.

Them used to live in New York and now they live in Chicago and

that seems like a great idea.