What started as a conversation about my continued interest in a theater community in a neighboring country became a much more general conversation about the role of a board in an arts organization.
Them is a board member at one of the theaters that called for the resignation of The Wolf (See Previous Entries like last week's http://thiscantbebroccoli.blogspot.com/2019/07/an-update-on-theater-and-big-bad-wolf.html) and whereas some of the people I interview don't care all that much about remaining anonymous, this particular person was very insistent on it--for obvious reasons.
Here's the interview:
ME: Can you hear me okay?
THEM: Yup, sounds good.
ME: Thank you for doing this.
THEM: I wish it were under better circumstances.
ME: How have things been going there?
THEM: Uh, it's been...tumultuous.
ME: I was surprised you were willing to speak with me.
THEM: Well, uh, like it or not, these--this blog you have--this has been a way of getting information out about certain things.
ME: That's crazy to me.
THEM: Yeah, uh--There are things I wanted to say that I would not be able to say publicly, but I--I do feel very strongly that they need to be said.
ME: Like what?
THEM: Well. One of the things being said right now is that, uh--Well, it's similar to the Weinstein situation where--a lot of people are claiming to--to have known nothing about what was going on, and I find that--it's--it's laughable to me.
ME: Because they did know.
THEM: Everybody knew. To some extent. Everybody knew what was going on.
ME: Did you know?
THEM: I knew--I knew enough.
ME: Why wasn't anything done?
THEM: Okay, so, I can only speak to--there are two other organizations involved in this, and--I'm speaking--confidentially--I'm speaking about just my organization.
ME: Understood.
THEM: And what--and what I know about how--what we did.
ME: Okay.
THEM: We--there was a feeling--at my organization--that this person was, to some degree, invaluable.
ME: As a director?
THEM: As a--I'm trying not to give too much away, but--
ME: Just shut me down if I start to--
THEM: No, it's all right. That was his primary function at all the places he worked, so--Yes, as a director. We were--he was someone that many of the other board members were--I guess you would say fans of, and the impression was that the audience felt the same way.
ME: Why do you say the impression?
THEM: Well--the news has broken here. I don't know if you knew that.
ME: I've been Googling, but I haven't had much luck.
THEM: I'll send you some links.
ME: Okay.
THEM: And the audience, uh--They're more angry that we--that we allowed this kind of behavior to go on than they are upset that this person will no longer be working with us. The--I would say the older audience members definitely--the more conservative ones--they're more vocal about wanting him back, but we haven't seen anybody cancel their subscriptions over it or rescind donations, whereas, uh, we have had people do that because we took so long to deal with this.
ME: Were you a fan of his?
THEM: I admired his work, but not his attitude.
ME: Were there ever discussions about removing him before now?
THEM: It would come up every now and again when he would act out.
ME: Acting out meaning--
THEM: Berating people. Berating staff. Production crew. Other actors. Harassment. Comments that were--frankly, they were disgusting, at times.
ME: And what was the argument for keeping him around even with that going on?
THEM: I'd like to say, first, that the reason I'm talking to you is because--and I'm not looking for an award here, but--I was very much in favor of getting rid of him the minute I joined the board--as soon as I was--as I became aware of his behavior, and, uh, the numbers just weren't there.
ME: You didn't have the votes to get rid of him?
THEM: Correct.
ME: Even though he was just a contract person right? Like, he wasn't on staff.
THEM: I--he was a resident director.
ME: What did that guarantee him in terms of employment?
THEM: Typically it was a show a year and some--he was very close with our Artistic Director, so I know he had some influence there with, uh, season selection.
ME: And casting?
THEM: And casting, yes.
ME: And he was given that much responsibility even with strikes against him?
THEM: This is when I repeat that he and our Artistic Director were very close and the President of our Board is--very fond of him.
ME: Will there be consequences for those people?
THEM: What do you mean?
ME: I don't know if you--I've been yelling a lot--
THEM: Oh, I knew that.
ME: (Laughs.) I've been saying that there need to be consequences not just for people who do these things, but for those who enable them--those people at a higher level. To me, your Artistic Director and the President of your Board--
THEM: I agree with you. I think--this came up in your last interview, I believe, uh--I think the issue is we're all culpable. They certainly--they certainly had the power to remove him and didn't, but...But none of us are innocent in this. That's what, I think, we're grappling with as a community. None of us are free and clear.
ME: So should there just be a massive purge?
THEM: You'd be talking about--there would be no more community. Even--okay, I'm going to tread lightly here--even the victims--they are not to blame--but many of them were--many of them helped promote him and protect him while they were on his team, so even they would...have a hard time not being on the, uh, wrong side of that purge you're talking about. That's the problem.
ME: Is this the first board you've served on?
THEM: Oh no, I'm a bit older than you, so I've been around.
ME: Have you ever seen anything like this before?
THEM: Uhhhh to this extent? No.
ME: But something like this?
THEM: Yes.
ME: What happened in that situation?
THEM: We named a street after the guy.
ME: You're kidding.
THEM: I am not. Come visit. I'll show you where it is.
ME: How--wow.
THEM: There are--there are systems in place to keep these people protected, and, I, uh, mentioned numbers. It's very difficult to get--you need big numbers to make a change. I think--I think with what's going on--we're going to start to see those numbers shift in our favor.
ME: Our meaning?
THEM: The people who don't want to see this happen anymore.
ME: What do you think can be done?
THEM: I think we need bigger boards with younger people on them. And not just people who can fund-raise and buy ten thousand dollar tables at galas. We need a board to be something more than just a financial part of an organization. It needs to--we're sort of the last stop when it comes to preventing, uh, all sorts of things from happening that shouldn't happen, and oftentimes, I've seen--on other boards I've worked on--oftentimes we're just used as, uh, people to fill up the coffers.
ME: So you'd like to see boards become more active in the organization?
THEM: I'd like to see artists on boards. The prevailing wisdom is--Well, that's not what they're for. Well--maybe they should be for that. The reason--it's pretty clear--the reason is because Artistic Directors and artistic staff do not want to answer to people they perceive to just be--the money people, the business people, and I get that. Believe me. I can't go into it too much--but I'm not some suit. I've done very well for myself in the creative field, and I think being a creative person is why--although many creative people didn't--I think that's why I was more apt to want to dismiss this person and not just go, 'Well, this could impact our bottom line in some way.' I didn't care about that.
ME: But--I'm playing devil's advocate here--should you care about that if you're on a board? Aren't you supposed to worry about the financial health of the organization?
THEM: And who's worrying about the moral health of the organization? Who's worried about whether or not we're treating people right? Who's worried about actors getting physically assaulted?
ME: General managers? Stage managers?
THEM: Sure. Unless they've been seduced.
ME: You're speaking like--seduced sexually or--
THEM: No, just--I should have said 'charmed.' One of the reasons what went on was allowed to go on for as long as it did was because this person was a predator. They knew exactly who they had to, uh, charm to stay in power. And it was going to take an outside body--like a board should be to some extent--to do something about it, because anybody that got close to them was going to get sucked in.
ME: So were your General Manager and stage managers complicit?
THEM: I don't know that for sure, but after speaking with the General Manager--I believe he needs to be fired, if you want the truth of it.
ME: Wow.
THEM: This is a little like--Are you a comic book fan? Or comic book movie fan?
ME: Sure.
THEM: This is--this is Captain America when he finds out Hydra's taken over SHIELD.
ME: Oh wow.
THEM: So maybe a little purge is required, I don't know. I'm really--taken aback by how deep this person's game went. It went a long way.
ME: So--putting that aside for a second--you're saying a board should be more active in an organization but you also want them to be an 'outside body' that's removed--
THEM: I think we need to know more about the in's and out's of an--a lot of the people on my board--okay, let me put it to you this way. There are directors--people who come in and work with us for weeks on a production--and we never meet them. Some of the people on the board--and I'm on a few boards right now, by the way, three, only one theater, but--you'd be amazed at all the things board members do not know about their organizations. It's scary. It really is. When you consider how much of--what falls back on us when there is a, uh, well, a scandal like the one we're seeing now.
ME: And your board member was one of the people he got to.
THEM: He's still texting her.
ME: What?
THEM: I shouldn't have said that, but...
ME: Do you want me to leave that out?
THEM: No. Don't.
ME: Do you think she should step down?
THEM: I do, yes.
ME: This is going to be a thing, I think.
THEM: It's already a thing.
ME: But I mean, this specifically--what you're saying--I always got the sense that boardrooms were supposed to sort of be this sacred space--
THEM: And maybe that's part of the problem. Maybe more transparency is necessary. When you're talking about non-profits--it's odd that we have as much secrecy as we do in organizations where all our information is subject to being reviewed by the public if necessary. I find it strange that we--I think more information should be public.
ME: And that probably ties into why you want more people on boards.
THEM: (Laughs.) I can hear Artistic staff everywhere groaning when they hear that--
ME: Honestly, I'm groaning.
THEM: But we're talking about changing systems so things like this don't happen again, and transforming what boards look like would be an excellent place to start. Frankly, our board is very male-heavy. Only three women serve on it, there are only four people of color, and most of the board is over the age of forty. Now, I'll give something away here, and this might come back to bite me, but--I'm an old white guy--and I think it's time to diversify. It's past time. Another board I'm on right now has a much more diverse group of people serving on it, and I notice a real--there's a real difference in how things are done, and I don't think that's a coincidence.
ME: Do you think what happened at the theater would have happened at this other organization?
THEM: No, I do not. I do not see--cross your fingers, but--I don't see something like that happening there. It's a culture. I believe that.
ME: I'm still kind of stuck on 'She's still texting him.'
THEM: Kevin, she's a fan.
ME: How did you find this out?
THEM: What's it like in Rhode Island?
ME: In terms of--
THEM: Here, everybody knows everything.
ME: Oh yeah, that's true here too.
THEM: Right.
ME: Does she know you know?
THEM: She will now, I guess. Or she'll know somebody knows.
ME: Are you going to confront her about it?
THEM: I'm thinking it over. I have to talk to some of my fellow board members first.
ME: Shouldn't you have talked to them before talking to me?
THEM: There's a plan in place.
ME: Like a coup? Is there going to be a coup?
THEM: (Laughs.) Hopefully it won't be that dramatic.
ME: Why are you giving all this away if you want her to see it?
THEM: Kevin, as the result of all this, I've been implicated in harboring an abuser. I take that very seriously. I really don't care about what happens next. It's time to clear my conscience. I should have done it a long time ago. I'm disgusted with myself over all this. I really am. And everybody else should be as well.
ME: What do you think is going on at the other organizations he resigned from?
THEM: No idea.
ME: And he was never on your board?
THEM: Briefly, but that was before my time.
ME: But he is on other boards?
THEM: I believe so, yes.
ME: Is your theater the one doing the investigation into him?
THEM: We should be, but we're not.
ME: Why not?
THEM: It's considered a closed issue.
ME: Okay.
THEM: But I'm hoping that will change.
ME: How was--how did the resignation go?
THEM: He sent us a letter.
ME: That was it?
THEM: That was it.
ME: He didn't fight at all?
THEM: I'm not sure what there was to fight. When the jig is up, it's up.
ME: People said he seemed invincible?
THEM: But he isn't.
ME: Have you talked about your board expansion idea?
THEM: I've brought it up.
ME: And?
THEM: Well--when I brought it up in the past--it was always met with--Why would we add people to the board who can't contribute financially? I think now I can make the case that the organization needs a lot more than just money. We always talk as though--Get the money first and then you'll be able to solve all the other problems--but there never seems to be enough money, and then you have these other problems growing and growing. What's the--to double back--who is looking out for morale? For conscience? Who's making sure we stick to our mission?
ME: Well one person I talked to couldn't even name the mission.
THEM: At my theater?
ME: No, another one. An Executive Director at another theater.
THEM: I don't even think it's that unusual.
ME: Would your Executive Director know your mission?
THEM: Uh, she might. I think she would.
ME: Do you know it?
THEM: I do.
ME: I won't make you say it.
THEM: I can say it. I know it.
ME: No, I just don't want people to use it to look up who are you.
THEM: (Laughs.) Ohhhh.
ME: But do you think you're following your mission?
THEM: No.
ME: No?
THEM: Not even close.
ME: Have you personally apologized to the victims?
(Pause.)
THEM: I haven't and I should.
ME: Is the theater going to issue an apology?
THEM: Not that I know of--and we should.
ME: Do you have the numbers to make that happen?
THEM: I will.
ME: Will you keep me posted on how all this goes down?
THEM: Happy to. Thank you for bringing this all to light.
ME: I'm just documenting all of it.
THEM: I think it's important, and I hope--I hope it'll--if nothing else--encourage people who have been doing these sorts of things--if nothing else--to stop.
ME: I would hope that would be the least of it too.
THEM: You going to come up to visit anytime soon?
ME: So I can see the street named after the predator?
THEM: (Laughs) It's not a very nice street.
ME: Oh good, that makes me feel better.
Them serves on several boards in their community. They are gathering the numbers.
Them is a board member at one of the theaters that called for the resignation of The Wolf (See Previous Entries like last week's http://thiscantbebroccoli.blogspot.com/2019/07/an-update-on-theater-and-big-bad-wolf.html) and whereas some of the people I interview don't care all that much about remaining anonymous, this particular person was very insistent on it--for obvious reasons.
Here's the interview:
ME: Can you hear me okay?
THEM: Yup, sounds good.
ME: Thank you for doing this.
THEM: I wish it were under better circumstances.
ME: How have things been going there?
THEM: Uh, it's been...tumultuous.
ME: I was surprised you were willing to speak with me.
THEM: Well, uh, like it or not, these--this blog you have--this has been a way of getting information out about certain things.
ME: That's crazy to me.
THEM: Yeah, uh--There are things I wanted to say that I would not be able to say publicly, but I--I do feel very strongly that they need to be said.
ME: Like what?
THEM: Well. One of the things being said right now is that, uh--Well, it's similar to the Weinstein situation where--a lot of people are claiming to--to have known nothing about what was going on, and I find that--it's--it's laughable to me.
ME: Because they did know.
THEM: Everybody knew. To some extent. Everybody knew what was going on.
ME: Did you know?
THEM: I knew--I knew enough.
ME: Why wasn't anything done?
THEM: Okay, so, I can only speak to--there are two other organizations involved in this, and--I'm speaking--confidentially--I'm speaking about just my organization.
ME: Understood.
THEM: And what--and what I know about how--what we did.
ME: Okay.
THEM: We--there was a feeling--at my organization--that this person was, to some degree, invaluable.
ME: As a director?
THEM: As a--I'm trying not to give too much away, but--
ME: Just shut me down if I start to--
THEM: No, it's all right. That was his primary function at all the places he worked, so--Yes, as a director. We were--he was someone that many of the other board members were--I guess you would say fans of, and the impression was that the audience felt the same way.
ME: Why do you say the impression?
THEM: Well--the news has broken here. I don't know if you knew that.
ME: I've been Googling, but I haven't had much luck.
THEM: I'll send you some links.
ME: Okay.
THEM: And the audience, uh--They're more angry that we--that we allowed this kind of behavior to go on than they are upset that this person will no longer be working with us. The--I would say the older audience members definitely--the more conservative ones--they're more vocal about wanting him back, but we haven't seen anybody cancel their subscriptions over it or rescind donations, whereas, uh, we have had people do that because we took so long to deal with this.
ME: Were you a fan of his?
THEM: I admired his work, but not his attitude.
ME: Were there ever discussions about removing him before now?
THEM: It would come up every now and again when he would act out.
ME: Acting out meaning--
THEM: Berating people. Berating staff. Production crew. Other actors. Harassment. Comments that were--frankly, they were disgusting, at times.
ME: And what was the argument for keeping him around even with that going on?
THEM: I'd like to say, first, that the reason I'm talking to you is because--and I'm not looking for an award here, but--I was very much in favor of getting rid of him the minute I joined the board--as soon as I was--as I became aware of his behavior, and, uh, the numbers just weren't there.
ME: You didn't have the votes to get rid of him?
THEM: Correct.
ME: Even though he was just a contract person right? Like, he wasn't on staff.
THEM: I--he was a resident director.
ME: What did that guarantee him in terms of employment?
THEM: Typically it was a show a year and some--he was very close with our Artistic Director, so I know he had some influence there with, uh, season selection.
ME: And casting?
THEM: And casting, yes.
ME: And he was given that much responsibility even with strikes against him?
THEM: This is when I repeat that he and our Artistic Director were very close and the President of our Board is--very fond of him.
ME: Will there be consequences for those people?
THEM: What do you mean?
ME: I don't know if you--I've been yelling a lot--
THEM: Oh, I knew that.
ME: (Laughs.) I've been saying that there need to be consequences not just for people who do these things, but for those who enable them--those people at a higher level. To me, your Artistic Director and the President of your Board--
THEM: I agree with you. I think--this came up in your last interview, I believe, uh--I think the issue is we're all culpable. They certainly--they certainly had the power to remove him and didn't, but...But none of us are innocent in this. That's what, I think, we're grappling with as a community. None of us are free and clear.
ME: So should there just be a massive purge?
THEM: You'd be talking about--there would be no more community. Even--okay, I'm going to tread lightly here--even the victims--they are not to blame--but many of them were--many of them helped promote him and protect him while they were on his team, so even they would...have a hard time not being on the, uh, wrong side of that purge you're talking about. That's the problem.
ME: Is this the first board you've served on?
THEM: Oh no, I'm a bit older than you, so I've been around.
ME: Have you ever seen anything like this before?
THEM: Uhhhh to this extent? No.
ME: But something like this?
THEM: Yes.
ME: What happened in that situation?
THEM: We named a street after the guy.
ME: You're kidding.
THEM: I am not. Come visit. I'll show you where it is.
ME: How--wow.
THEM: There are--there are systems in place to keep these people protected, and, I, uh, mentioned numbers. It's very difficult to get--you need big numbers to make a change. I think--I think with what's going on--we're going to start to see those numbers shift in our favor.
ME: Our meaning?
THEM: The people who don't want to see this happen anymore.
ME: What do you think can be done?
THEM: I think we need bigger boards with younger people on them. And not just people who can fund-raise and buy ten thousand dollar tables at galas. We need a board to be something more than just a financial part of an organization. It needs to--we're sort of the last stop when it comes to preventing, uh, all sorts of things from happening that shouldn't happen, and oftentimes, I've seen--on other boards I've worked on--oftentimes we're just used as, uh, people to fill up the coffers.
ME: So you'd like to see boards become more active in the organization?
THEM: I'd like to see artists on boards. The prevailing wisdom is--Well, that's not what they're for. Well--maybe they should be for that. The reason--it's pretty clear--the reason is because Artistic Directors and artistic staff do not want to answer to people they perceive to just be--the money people, the business people, and I get that. Believe me. I can't go into it too much--but I'm not some suit. I've done very well for myself in the creative field, and I think being a creative person is why--although many creative people didn't--I think that's why I was more apt to want to dismiss this person and not just go, 'Well, this could impact our bottom line in some way.' I didn't care about that.
ME: But--I'm playing devil's advocate here--should you care about that if you're on a board? Aren't you supposed to worry about the financial health of the organization?
THEM: And who's worrying about the moral health of the organization? Who's worried about whether or not we're treating people right? Who's worried about actors getting physically assaulted?
ME: General managers? Stage managers?
THEM: Sure. Unless they've been seduced.
ME: You're speaking like--seduced sexually or--
THEM: No, just--I should have said 'charmed.' One of the reasons what went on was allowed to go on for as long as it did was because this person was a predator. They knew exactly who they had to, uh, charm to stay in power. And it was going to take an outside body--like a board should be to some extent--to do something about it, because anybody that got close to them was going to get sucked in.
ME: So were your General Manager and stage managers complicit?
THEM: I don't know that for sure, but after speaking with the General Manager--I believe he needs to be fired, if you want the truth of it.
ME: Wow.
THEM: This is a little like--Are you a comic book fan? Or comic book movie fan?
ME: Sure.
THEM: This is--this is Captain America when he finds out Hydra's taken over SHIELD.
ME: Oh wow.
THEM: So maybe a little purge is required, I don't know. I'm really--taken aback by how deep this person's game went. It went a long way.
ME: So--putting that aside for a second--you're saying a board should be more active in an organization but you also want them to be an 'outside body' that's removed--
THEM: I think we need to know more about the in's and out's of an--a lot of the people on my board--okay, let me put it to you this way. There are directors--people who come in and work with us for weeks on a production--and we never meet them. Some of the people on the board--and I'm on a few boards right now, by the way, three, only one theater, but--you'd be amazed at all the things board members do not know about their organizations. It's scary. It really is. When you consider how much of--what falls back on us when there is a, uh, well, a scandal like the one we're seeing now.
ME: And your board member was one of the people he got to.
THEM: He's still texting her.
ME: What?
THEM: I shouldn't have said that, but...
ME: Do you want me to leave that out?
THEM: No. Don't.
ME: Do you think she should step down?
THEM: I do, yes.
ME: This is going to be a thing, I think.
THEM: It's already a thing.
ME: But I mean, this specifically--what you're saying--I always got the sense that boardrooms were supposed to sort of be this sacred space--
THEM: And maybe that's part of the problem. Maybe more transparency is necessary. When you're talking about non-profits--it's odd that we have as much secrecy as we do in organizations where all our information is subject to being reviewed by the public if necessary. I find it strange that we--I think more information should be public.
ME: And that probably ties into why you want more people on boards.
THEM: (Laughs.) I can hear Artistic staff everywhere groaning when they hear that--
ME: Honestly, I'm groaning.
THEM: But we're talking about changing systems so things like this don't happen again, and transforming what boards look like would be an excellent place to start. Frankly, our board is very male-heavy. Only three women serve on it, there are only four people of color, and most of the board is over the age of forty. Now, I'll give something away here, and this might come back to bite me, but--I'm an old white guy--and I think it's time to diversify. It's past time. Another board I'm on right now has a much more diverse group of people serving on it, and I notice a real--there's a real difference in how things are done, and I don't think that's a coincidence.
ME: Do you think what happened at the theater would have happened at this other organization?
THEM: No, I do not. I do not see--cross your fingers, but--I don't see something like that happening there. It's a culture. I believe that.
ME: I'm still kind of stuck on 'She's still texting him.'
THEM: Kevin, she's a fan.
ME: How did you find this out?
THEM: What's it like in Rhode Island?
ME: In terms of--
THEM: Here, everybody knows everything.
ME: Oh yeah, that's true here too.
THEM: Right.
ME: Does she know you know?
THEM: She will now, I guess. Or she'll know somebody knows.
ME: Are you going to confront her about it?
THEM: I'm thinking it over. I have to talk to some of my fellow board members first.
ME: Shouldn't you have talked to them before talking to me?
THEM: There's a plan in place.
ME: Like a coup? Is there going to be a coup?
THEM: (Laughs.) Hopefully it won't be that dramatic.
ME: Why are you giving all this away if you want her to see it?
THEM: Kevin, as the result of all this, I've been implicated in harboring an abuser. I take that very seriously. I really don't care about what happens next. It's time to clear my conscience. I should have done it a long time ago. I'm disgusted with myself over all this. I really am. And everybody else should be as well.
ME: What do you think is going on at the other organizations he resigned from?
THEM: No idea.
ME: And he was never on your board?
THEM: Briefly, but that was before my time.
ME: But he is on other boards?
THEM: I believe so, yes.
ME: Is your theater the one doing the investigation into him?
THEM: We should be, but we're not.
ME: Why not?
THEM: It's considered a closed issue.
ME: Okay.
THEM: But I'm hoping that will change.
ME: How was--how did the resignation go?
THEM: He sent us a letter.
ME: That was it?
THEM: That was it.
ME: He didn't fight at all?
THEM: I'm not sure what there was to fight. When the jig is up, it's up.
ME: People said he seemed invincible?
THEM: But he isn't.
ME: Have you talked about your board expansion idea?
THEM: I've brought it up.
ME: And?
THEM: Well--when I brought it up in the past--it was always met with--Why would we add people to the board who can't contribute financially? I think now I can make the case that the organization needs a lot more than just money. We always talk as though--Get the money first and then you'll be able to solve all the other problems--but there never seems to be enough money, and then you have these other problems growing and growing. What's the--to double back--who is looking out for morale? For conscience? Who's making sure we stick to our mission?
ME: Well one person I talked to couldn't even name the mission.
THEM: At my theater?
ME: No, another one. An Executive Director at another theater.
THEM: I don't even think it's that unusual.
ME: Would your Executive Director know your mission?
THEM: Uh, she might. I think she would.
ME: Do you know it?
THEM: I do.
ME: I won't make you say it.
THEM: I can say it. I know it.
ME: No, I just don't want people to use it to look up who are you.
THEM: (Laughs.) Ohhhh.
ME: But do you think you're following your mission?
THEM: No.
ME: No?
THEM: Not even close.
ME: Have you personally apologized to the victims?
(Pause.)
THEM: I haven't and I should.
ME: Is the theater going to issue an apology?
THEM: Not that I know of--and we should.
ME: Do you have the numbers to make that happen?
THEM: I will.
ME: Will you keep me posted on how all this goes down?
THEM: Happy to. Thank you for bringing this all to light.
ME: I'm just documenting all of it.
THEM: I think it's important, and I hope--I hope it'll--if nothing else--encourage people who have been doing these sorts of things--if nothing else--to stop.
ME: I would hope that would be the least of it too.
THEM: You going to come up to visit anytime soon?
ME: So I can see the street named after the predator?
THEM: (Laughs) It's not a very nice street.
ME: Oh good, that makes me feel better.
Them serves on several boards in their community. They are gathering the numbers.
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