If you haven't been following my ongoing series-within-a-series about a group of theater people causing problems within their (unnamed) community, check out these links now:
http://thiscantbebroccoli.blogspot.com/2019/08/theater-and-dream-team.html
http://thiscantbebroccoli.blogspot.com/2019/08/theater-and-dream-team-part-two.html
In those posts, we mentioned that this group had bullied a teenager online, and in the process of posting these interviews, I had the opportunity to speak with the teenager's mother, then the sixteen-year-old herself, and we all agreed that something might be gained from doing an interview with her.
So, I met with the teenager and her mother before I left for California last week, and this is the interview.
ME: How are you doing today?
THEM: I'm okay.
ME: I just want to mention that your mom's here in the theater with us.
THEM: Yeah.
ME: I'm going to note that you just rolled your eyes really hard.
THEM: (Laughs.) I told her she can't talk.
ME: Is that true Mom?
THEM'S MOM: That's right.
ME: Your Mom's here because you're sixteen and we want to make sure that you feel okay about everything we talk about, and if you ever decide you don't want to answer a question, or you want to take a break, you just let me know and we'll stop, okay?
THEM: Okay.
ME: So you were cast in a show in an area not far from where I live in Rhode Island. You got one of the leads, right?
THEM: Yes.
ME: Had you ever worked with the company producing the show before?
THEM: No. I almost didn't audition, but I went at the last minute.
ME: What made you want to audition?
THEM: I really love the music and I thought I would do a good job.
ME: Well, your Mom sent me a video of the show--
THEM: She's not supposed to take videos.
ME: I know, and I told her that, and I made sure she felt really bad about it.
THEM: (Laughs.) She's always doing that.
ME: Well, she's a Mom. That's what they do. But--I watched the video, and you did a really great job.
THEM: Thank you.
ME: Now, when you got the role, there were some people who had worked at the theater before who started taking these vague jabs at you online, right?
THEM: Yeah.
ME: They're called the Dream Team, right?
THEM: Yeah.
ME: I just want to note that you rolled your eyes again.
THEM: (Laughs.) It just sounds really stupid.
ME: Well, it is pretty stupid. Did you see the t-shirts they had made?
THEM: My friend showed me a photo of it, yeah.
ME: Ugly shirts, by the way. Terrible design.
THEM: (Laughs.) Yeah, I didn't like them either.
ME: I probably wouldn't be making fun of them like that except they were pretty mean to you on social media.
THEM: Yeah, um, at first, it was like--All stuff where it could have been about me or it could have been about something else, so I thought maybe that's what it was. But people were telling me that it was about me, and, um, so I just commented once being like, 'Is this about me?' and that's when everything got really bad.
ME: They were fighting with you online?
THEM: Yeah.
ME: All adults?
THEM: Yeah.
ME: What were they saying?
THEM: Um.
. . . . .
ME: Do you want to take a minute?
THEM: I--
ME: Hey Mom, why don't we give her a minute?
THEM'S MOM: Okay.
(A few minutes later.)
. . . . .
ME: Okay, you still want to do this?
THEM: Yeah.
ME: We don't have to talk about what they said online, but it was really mean stuff, right?
THEM: Yeah. Sorry.
ME: Don't be sorry. It's okay to get upset about stuff like that. I'm thirty-five and I still get upset about it.
THEM: Yeah.
ME: And I saw some screenshots, and it looked like you fought back pretty hard.
THEM: I don't like people who think they can say whatever they want. These are, like, adults and they're telling me I'm not talented. Saying I didn't deserve the role. They were just jealous.
ME: You're right, and you know what? I could never have did what you did. Getting up there after all that and still doing the show. I don't know how you did it.
THEM: I just had a lot of people telling me, like, don't let them win.
ME: And you just decided to deactivate your social media accounts, right?
THEM: Yeah, because they were harassing me on Instagram, on--It wasn't good for me to look at all of it.
ME: And you and your mom even went to the police about the harassment, right?
THEM: Yeah, my mom went psycho.
ME: I would have gone psycho too. I probably would have run them over with my car.
THEM'S MOM: I thought about it.
THEM: Mom, please.
THEM'S MOM: I'm sorry.
ME: What did the police say?
THEM: They can't really do anything, because, um, it's all on social media, and they, like, they don't know what to do about stuff that happens on there unless somebody threatens you.
ME: And you weren't threatened?
THEM: No.
ME: How did all of this make you feel as you were working on the show?
THEM: Like...I didn't even want to do it anymore. I...I just felt like everybody was mad at me and nobody wanted to see me do well.
ME: I'm sorry.
THEM: But I didn't want to quit, because I...Because I said I would do it. So I wanted to do it.
ME: And how did that feel?
THEM: It felt good. It felt like--maybe even better than if I hadn't had anybody doubting me.
ME: And you know what that makes you?
THEM: What?
ME: A professional. And it makes them look like a bunch of amateurs. And I know amateurs, trust me.
THEM: Thank you.
THEM'S MOM: Ask him your question.
THEM: Mom.
ME: You want to ask me something?
THEM: Yeah, um, I was reading some stuff you wrote, and, talking about theater and how it's been for you, and I was wondering if you, um, have advice about, like, when people are saying you can't do something.
ME: So when I did Hedwig in January, I actually had a lot of people--even people who were my friends--saying I shouldn't do it. That I couldn't do it. That I--Basically that I didn't have what it takes.
THEM: That sucks.
ME: It did suck, yeah. And it really--it got in my head. And I went into the whole thing thinking 'Oh, I'm going to prove them wrong. I'm going to work so hard. I'm going to do this and this.' And it was all wrong. Luckily, I had all these great people working on it with me, and supporting me, because I was really at a breaking point thinking this is what I'm afraid of the most.
THEM: What?
ME: Failing. Not being able to--to do--like you just mentioned--to do what I said I would do.
THEM: So how did you get over it?
ME: I just had to let go. I had to just focus on the room and the people in the room with me and not worry about what everybody else might be saying or thinking, because people are always going to say and think things. The problem is, I can be the most opinionated, meanest person on the planet, and so even when it's just my voice in my head, it can still be pretty damaging.
THEM: Yeah, I was really beating myself up a lot.
ME: You just--it's an up and down kind of thing. You're going to have good days and bad days, and that's part of what it means to pursue something you're passionate about. If we didn't care about all of this so much, it wouldn't matter, right?
THEM: But do you still get nervous when you have to go onstage?
ME: I like when I get nervous, because it means I still care. I don't want to be backstage thinking, 'Oh, here we go again. This should be easy.' I want to be scared. Not scared like I've been where it's 'I just don't want to do this anymore,' but scared like, 'Wow, am I really going to pull this off?'
THEM: Were you nervous hosting that awards show? My mom showed me the part with you doing your song.
ME: You know what, I was up there, and I've hosted--this was my fifth time--and I'm up there, and this was the first time that I couldn't see the audience. Because we were in this new venue, and it was just like a theater, where you can't see into the crowd. And so I'm up there, and I know there are people out there, but I can't see them, and so I can't--I know my friends are out there. I know people who like me are out there, but I can't see them. And it's not a play where I'm playing a character and I can get lost in that. It's just me. And I start hearing that voice that's saying 'You're not funny. Nobody thinks you're funny. You're doing too much. Pull back. You're talking too fast. You're being awkward. What are you doing?' All that. I started to panic.
THEM: That's crazy. Did you have to stop and like go somewhere to calm down?
ME: I would go downstairs and just recuperate, but even the next day, I was sitting on my couch saying 'You were horrible. People hated it. You did a bad job.'
THEM: And then it went away?
ME: It's more like, you have to say, 'I can't worry about this anymore. I did my best. That's all I can do.' And you just...You hope that's enough.
THEM: I kind of messed up a line on opening night and I was like, Oh my god, they were right. I'm up here messing up and I shouldn't even be up here.
ME: But you know what? It wouldn't matter if you messed up or didn't or did a great job or didn't, because--and I learned this back when I was in college--there are people you are going to meet in your life who are either going to pity you when you fail or envy you when you succeed, and for whatever reason, they are never going to give you credit for anything. I could win an Oscar tomorrow and there are people who would say, He didn't deserve it. He wasn't that good. People with good character can admit when they're wrong, and let someone else have the spotlight even if they don't like them, but a lot of people aren't able to do that. Even I have trouble doing that. If my worst enemy won an Oscar, I'd say, Well, it's not like he won a Pulitzer.
THEM: I read your interview with that person from the Dream Team.
ME: Did you like it?
THEM: Yeah, you were savage.
ME: Have any of them apologized to you?
THEM: No.
ME: Would you like an apology from them?
THEM: Um, yeah, I guess.
ME: So here's what I'm going to do--because I know a little about being a bully too--there are, what--six people in that group?
THEM: There's--Yeah, there's six. There used to be eight I think, but two people moved.
ME: And all six were ganging up on you online?
THEM: Yeah.
ME: Okay, so--I happen to have information on all six of those people that other people in your community have sent me since I published the first interview. Very interesting information.
THEM: Okay.
ME: A lot of people were upset about how they treated you, and it seems like everybody's just kind of sick of them terrorizing the theater community where you live.
THEM: Yeah, I've been getting a lot of nice messages from people.
ME: And that's great. I also think you're owed those apologies. It's not okay for adults to be acting that way. But since they like a little drama, I think we should give them a taste of their own medicine. So the day that I post this--on Tuesday--I'm going to send this interview to them, and I'm going to give them twenty-four hours to publish--on social media--an apology to you. I want an apology from all six people, including the one I interviewed, and I want it posted publicly so everyone can see it, or I'm going to publish all the emails, all the messages, everything I've been sent about each one of them.
THEM: (Laughs.) That's amazing.
ME: Mom, you cool with that?
THEM'S MOM: Yup.
ME: Great. So that's what we're going to do. And if they try this again, I'll be ready with the dirt.
THEM: I wish I had it.
ME: No, because you're young and talented and I want you to stay above all this bulls***. You just keep your head in the room.
THEM: Well, I'm not on social media anymore, but my Mom can check and see if they post an apology.
ME: You like being off social media?
THEM: It sucks. I hate it.
ME: It's good for you though.
THEM: I want to get back on, but my Mom says not until I'm eighteen.
ME: Do you think she can enforce that?
THEM: (Laughs.) Probably not.
THEM'S MOM: We'll see.
THEM: They're not going to apologize.
ME: You don't think so?
THEM: No.
ME: You want to make a bet?
THEM: Sure.
ME: Okay. If you don't get your apologies in twenty-four hours, I will show you the video of me doing Bambi in the third grade.
THEM: What do you get if you win?
ME: You have to stay off social media until you're eighteen.
THEM: (Laughs.) Oh wow.
ME: Do we have a deal?
THEM: Okay.
ME: Okay. Clock starts now.
Them is entering her senior year of high school this week.
http://thiscantbebroccoli.blogspot.com/2019/08/theater-and-dream-team.html
http://thiscantbebroccoli.blogspot.com/2019/08/theater-and-dream-team-part-two.html
In those posts, we mentioned that this group had bullied a teenager online, and in the process of posting these interviews, I had the opportunity to speak with the teenager's mother, then the sixteen-year-old herself, and we all agreed that something might be gained from doing an interview with her.
So, I met with the teenager and her mother before I left for California last week, and this is the interview.
ME: How are you doing today?
THEM: I'm okay.
ME: I just want to mention that your mom's here in the theater with us.
THEM: Yeah.
ME: I'm going to note that you just rolled your eyes really hard.
THEM: (Laughs.) I told her she can't talk.
ME: Is that true Mom?
THEM'S MOM: That's right.
ME: Your Mom's here because you're sixteen and we want to make sure that you feel okay about everything we talk about, and if you ever decide you don't want to answer a question, or you want to take a break, you just let me know and we'll stop, okay?
THEM: Okay.
ME: So you were cast in a show in an area not far from where I live in Rhode Island. You got one of the leads, right?
THEM: Yes.
ME: Had you ever worked with the company producing the show before?
THEM: No. I almost didn't audition, but I went at the last minute.
ME: What made you want to audition?
THEM: I really love the music and I thought I would do a good job.
ME: Well, your Mom sent me a video of the show--
THEM: She's not supposed to take videos.
ME: I know, and I told her that, and I made sure she felt really bad about it.
THEM: (Laughs.) She's always doing that.
ME: Well, she's a Mom. That's what they do. But--I watched the video, and you did a really great job.
THEM: Thank you.
ME: Now, when you got the role, there were some people who had worked at the theater before who started taking these vague jabs at you online, right?
THEM: Yeah.
ME: They're called the Dream Team, right?
THEM: Yeah.
ME: I just want to note that you rolled your eyes again.
THEM: (Laughs.) It just sounds really stupid.
ME: Well, it is pretty stupid. Did you see the t-shirts they had made?
THEM: My friend showed me a photo of it, yeah.
ME: Ugly shirts, by the way. Terrible design.
THEM: (Laughs.) Yeah, I didn't like them either.
ME: I probably wouldn't be making fun of them like that except they were pretty mean to you on social media.
THEM: Yeah, um, at first, it was like--All stuff where it could have been about me or it could have been about something else, so I thought maybe that's what it was. But people were telling me that it was about me, and, um, so I just commented once being like, 'Is this about me?' and that's when everything got really bad.
ME: They were fighting with you online?
THEM: Yeah.
ME: All adults?
THEM: Yeah.
ME: What were they saying?
THEM: Um.
. . . . .
ME: Do you want to take a minute?
THEM: I--
ME: Hey Mom, why don't we give her a minute?
THEM'S MOM: Okay.
(A few minutes later.)
. . . . .
ME: Okay, you still want to do this?
THEM: Yeah.
ME: We don't have to talk about what they said online, but it was really mean stuff, right?
THEM: Yeah. Sorry.
ME: Don't be sorry. It's okay to get upset about stuff like that. I'm thirty-five and I still get upset about it.
THEM: Yeah.
ME: And I saw some screenshots, and it looked like you fought back pretty hard.
THEM: I don't like people who think they can say whatever they want. These are, like, adults and they're telling me I'm not talented. Saying I didn't deserve the role. They were just jealous.
ME: You're right, and you know what? I could never have did what you did. Getting up there after all that and still doing the show. I don't know how you did it.
THEM: I just had a lot of people telling me, like, don't let them win.
ME: And you just decided to deactivate your social media accounts, right?
THEM: Yeah, because they were harassing me on Instagram, on--It wasn't good for me to look at all of it.
ME: And you and your mom even went to the police about the harassment, right?
THEM: Yeah, my mom went psycho.
ME: I would have gone psycho too. I probably would have run them over with my car.
THEM'S MOM: I thought about it.
THEM: Mom, please.
THEM'S MOM: I'm sorry.
ME: What did the police say?
THEM: They can't really do anything, because, um, it's all on social media, and they, like, they don't know what to do about stuff that happens on there unless somebody threatens you.
ME: And you weren't threatened?
THEM: No.
ME: How did all of this make you feel as you were working on the show?
THEM: Like...I didn't even want to do it anymore. I...I just felt like everybody was mad at me and nobody wanted to see me do well.
ME: I'm sorry.
THEM: But I didn't want to quit, because I...Because I said I would do it. So I wanted to do it.
ME: And how did that feel?
THEM: It felt good. It felt like--maybe even better than if I hadn't had anybody doubting me.
ME: And you know what that makes you?
THEM: What?
ME: A professional. And it makes them look like a bunch of amateurs. And I know amateurs, trust me.
THEM: Thank you.
THEM'S MOM: Ask him your question.
THEM: Mom.
ME: You want to ask me something?
THEM: Yeah, um, I was reading some stuff you wrote, and, talking about theater and how it's been for you, and I was wondering if you, um, have advice about, like, when people are saying you can't do something.
ME: So when I did Hedwig in January, I actually had a lot of people--even people who were my friends--saying I shouldn't do it. That I couldn't do it. That I--Basically that I didn't have what it takes.
THEM: That sucks.
ME: It did suck, yeah. And it really--it got in my head. And I went into the whole thing thinking 'Oh, I'm going to prove them wrong. I'm going to work so hard. I'm going to do this and this.' And it was all wrong. Luckily, I had all these great people working on it with me, and supporting me, because I was really at a breaking point thinking this is what I'm afraid of the most.
THEM: What?
ME: Failing. Not being able to--to do--like you just mentioned--to do what I said I would do.
THEM: So how did you get over it?
ME: I just had to let go. I had to just focus on the room and the people in the room with me and not worry about what everybody else might be saying or thinking, because people are always going to say and think things. The problem is, I can be the most opinionated, meanest person on the planet, and so even when it's just my voice in my head, it can still be pretty damaging.
THEM: Yeah, I was really beating myself up a lot.
ME: You just--it's an up and down kind of thing. You're going to have good days and bad days, and that's part of what it means to pursue something you're passionate about. If we didn't care about all of this so much, it wouldn't matter, right?
THEM: But do you still get nervous when you have to go onstage?
ME: I like when I get nervous, because it means I still care. I don't want to be backstage thinking, 'Oh, here we go again. This should be easy.' I want to be scared. Not scared like I've been where it's 'I just don't want to do this anymore,' but scared like, 'Wow, am I really going to pull this off?'
THEM: Were you nervous hosting that awards show? My mom showed me the part with you doing your song.
ME: You know what, I was up there, and I've hosted--this was my fifth time--and I'm up there, and this was the first time that I couldn't see the audience. Because we were in this new venue, and it was just like a theater, where you can't see into the crowd. And so I'm up there, and I know there are people out there, but I can't see them, and so I can't--I know my friends are out there. I know people who like me are out there, but I can't see them. And it's not a play where I'm playing a character and I can get lost in that. It's just me. And I start hearing that voice that's saying 'You're not funny. Nobody thinks you're funny. You're doing too much. Pull back. You're talking too fast. You're being awkward. What are you doing?' All that. I started to panic.
THEM: That's crazy. Did you have to stop and like go somewhere to calm down?
ME: I would go downstairs and just recuperate, but even the next day, I was sitting on my couch saying 'You were horrible. People hated it. You did a bad job.'
THEM: And then it went away?
ME: It's more like, you have to say, 'I can't worry about this anymore. I did my best. That's all I can do.' And you just...You hope that's enough.
THEM: I kind of messed up a line on opening night and I was like, Oh my god, they were right. I'm up here messing up and I shouldn't even be up here.
ME: But you know what? It wouldn't matter if you messed up or didn't or did a great job or didn't, because--and I learned this back when I was in college--there are people you are going to meet in your life who are either going to pity you when you fail or envy you when you succeed, and for whatever reason, they are never going to give you credit for anything. I could win an Oscar tomorrow and there are people who would say, He didn't deserve it. He wasn't that good. People with good character can admit when they're wrong, and let someone else have the spotlight even if they don't like them, but a lot of people aren't able to do that. Even I have trouble doing that. If my worst enemy won an Oscar, I'd say, Well, it's not like he won a Pulitzer.
THEM: I read your interview with that person from the Dream Team.
ME: Did you like it?
THEM: Yeah, you were savage.
ME: Have any of them apologized to you?
THEM: No.
ME: Would you like an apology from them?
THEM: Um, yeah, I guess.
ME: So here's what I'm going to do--because I know a little about being a bully too--there are, what--six people in that group?
THEM: There's--Yeah, there's six. There used to be eight I think, but two people moved.
ME: And all six were ganging up on you online?
THEM: Yeah.
ME: Okay, so--I happen to have information on all six of those people that other people in your community have sent me since I published the first interview. Very interesting information.
THEM: Okay.
ME: A lot of people were upset about how they treated you, and it seems like everybody's just kind of sick of them terrorizing the theater community where you live.
THEM: Yeah, I've been getting a lot of nice messages from people.
ME: And that's great. I also think you're owed those apologies. It's not okay for adults to be acting that way. But since they like a little drama, I think we should give them a taste of their own medicine. So the day that I post this--on Tuesday--I'm going to send this interview to them, and I'm going to give them twenty-four hours to publish--on social media--an apology to you. I want an apology from all six people, including the one I interviewed, and I want it posted publicly so everyone can see it, or I'm going to publish all the emails, all the messages, everything I've been sent about each one of them.
THEM: (Laughs.) That's amazing.
ME: Mom, you cool with that?
THEM'S MOM: Yup.
ME: Great. So that's what we're going to do. And if they try this again, I'll be ready with the dirt.
THEM: I wish I had it.
ME: No, because you're young and talented and I want you to stay above all this bulls***. You just keep your head in the room.
THEM: Well, I'm not on social media anymore, but my Mom can check and see if they post an apology.
ME: You like being off social media?
THEM: It sucks. I hate it.
ME: It's good for you though.
THEM: I want to get back on, but my Mom says not until I'm eighteen.
ME: Do you think she can enforce that?
THEM: (Laughs.) Probably not.
THEM'S MOM: We'll see.
THEM: They're not going to apologize.
ME: You don't think so?
THEM: No.
ME: You want to make a bet?
THEM: Sure.
ME: Okay. If you don't get your apologies in twenty-four hours, I will show you the video of me doing Bambi in the third grade.
THEM: What do you get if you win?
ME: You have to stay off social media until you're eighteen.
THEM: (Laughs.) Oh wow.
ME: Do we have a deal?
THEM: Okay.
ME: Okay. Clock starts now.
Them is entering her senior year of high school this week.
Kevin, you never cease to amaze me. Writer, actor, director, producer, raving bitch queen, and kindly, positive role model for the theatrical folks of tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteAnd on top of that, an adorable sweetie, and boundless energy.
Long may you live and prosper.