If you haven't read the first two interviews, you should do that here first by going to--
Today, I'm talking to the person I'm calling Linus about his part in the brawl, including what could be considered the most dramatic part of the evening.
Here's the interview:
ME: I just want to get right to it--What happened with the window?
LINUS: All you've been digging up and you keep coming back to that window.
LINUS: All you've been digging up and you keep coming back to that window.
ME: I just can't imagine somebody going through a window on an opening night.
LINUS: Not somebody. Two people.
ME: You and Schroeder?
LINUS: Schroeder and me. That's right.
LINUS: Schroeder and me. That's right.
ME: So we can agree on that? You two were the ones who went through the window.
LINUS: Yes.
ME: How did that happen?
LINUS: Schroeder'd been drinking and when Schroeder would get to drinking, he'd start in with F this and F that--
LINUS: Schroeder'd been drinking and when Schroeder would get to drinking, he'd start in with F this and F that--
ME: About what?
LINUS: The theater.
LINUS: The theater.
ME: And Charlie
LINUS: Charlie and me and everybody.
LINUS: Charlie and me and everybody.
ME: What did he have against the theater?
LINUS: He had something against everybody. He was a miserable son-of-a-bitch.
LINUS: He had something against everybody. He was a miserable son-of-a-bitch.
ME: He was the music director, right?
LINUS: Yes.
LINUS: Yes.
ME: Was he the music director from the show that night?
LINUS: Yes.
ME: So he performs in the show, has some drinks at the party--
LINUS: He had some drinks before the party.
ME: He drank before the show?
LINUS: And during.
LINUS: And during.
ME: During?
LINUS: He would keep a bottle of--He'd say it was tea. That he had tea. It wasn't no tea.
LINUS: He would keep a bottle of--He'd say it was tea. That he had tea. It wasn't no tea.
ME: So he would drink as the show was going on?
LINUS: Yes.
LINUS: Yes.
ME: Was he an alcoholic?
LINUS: I don't know enough about somebody to say alcoholic, but if somebody can't stop drinking for two hours to play a show, you can make your own judgments.
LINUS: I don't know enough about somebody to say alcoholic, but if somebody can't stop drinking for two hours to play a show, you can make your own judgments.
ME: Okay. So he's drunk by the party?
LINUS: As a skunk.
LINUS: As a skunk.
ME: Okay. And he's saying things--
LINUS: Talkin' s***.
ME: I'll get there. You hear him?
LINUS: Yes.
ME: Do you remember what he said specifically that got you so mad?
LINUS: Yes, I do. He called Charlie a word I didn't like.
LINUS: Yes, I do. He called Charlie a word I didn't like.
ME: What was the word?
LINUS: It was a word I would use if I wanted to make somebody like you mad.
LINUS: It was a word I would use if I wanted to make somebody like you mad.
ME: Like me how? Like a gay derogatory term?
LINUS: Yes.
ME: The one starting with 'F?'
LINUS: Yes.
ME: Okay, I got it. He called Charlie that?
LINUS: Yes.
LINUS: Yes.
ME: But Charlie was with Lucy.
LINUS: There was a...There were people--I'm going to say this, because I haven't seen any of these people in a long time, but--There were people who felt Charlie was with Lucy as a--That he wasn't all that interested in Lucy, and that's probably all I should say about that.
ME: But people thought Charlie was gay?
LINUS: Some people thought that, yes.
LINUS: Some people thought that, yes.
ME: Did you think that?
LINUS: I didn't think much about it one way or the other.
LINUS: I didn't think much about it one way or the other.
ME: So you hear Schroeder call Charlie a name?
LINUS: Yes.
LINUS: Yes.
ME: You get upset and you what--shove him?
LINUS: I was nice at first and I politely asked him not to use that word.
LINUS: I was nice at first and I politely asked him not to use that word.
ME: This was twenty-five years ago.
LINUS: And?
ME: I'm just saying, that was a big deal for you to step up in that way.
ME: I'm just saying, that was a big deal for you to step up in that way.
LINUS: I didn't think so. There was no call--There's never a call for it, but--You don't talk about somebody that way just because you don't like 'em.
ME: I know you said Schroeder didn't like anybody, but was there a reason he didn't like Charlie specifically? Was he homophobic?
LINUS: He--I--Schroeder had a thing for Lucy.
LINUS: He--I--Schroeder had a thing for Lucy.
ME: Okay.
LINUS: I know he spoke with her once or twice to tell her about Charlie, because people had said they saw Charlie with a guy--
ME: Who saw that?
LINUS: He was at some restaurant in [Name of Town] which is about an hour away and somebody saw him. That was the rumor. I don't know if it was true. Schroeder told Lucy and Lucy told him to F off, which--Good for her. He tried to talk to her about it one more time, and then Charlie called him and said, as you would, 'You got something to say to me?' Schroeder backed down, because he was a ____, excuse my language.
LINUS: He was at some restaurant in [Name of Town] which is about an hour away and somebody saw him. That was the rumor. I don't know if it was true. Schroeder told Lucy and Lucy told him to F off, which--Good for her. He tried to talk to her about it one more time, and then Charlie called him and said, as you would, 'You got something to say to me?' Schroeder backed down, because he was a ____, excuse my language.
ME: But they still hired him to be the music director?
LINUS: We didn't have much choice. There weren't any other people who could do it.
LINUS: We didn't have much choice. There weren't any other people who could do it.
ME: Yeah, I know, I've covered this before.
LINUS: About Schroeder?
ME: No, it happens in lots of places.
ME: No, it happens in lots of places.
LINUS: I see.
ME: So the first time you talk to him on opening night, you talk to him nicely?
LINUS: Yes, I say 'Schroeder, we're all having a nice time. Let's cool it.'
LINUS: Yes, I say 'Schroeder, we're all having a nice time. Let's cool it.'
ME: How did he respond?
LINUS: He--Nobody challenged him like that. He didn't like it. He tells me that--You want me to say what he said or--
LINUS: He--Nobody challenged him like that. He didn't like it. He tells me that--You want me to say what he said or--
ME: I can edit it.
LINUS: He told me that I need to stop _____ Charlie's ______ but that when I do, I won't be getting roles in shows anymore because I can't sing worth a s_____ or dance worth a s____ or ACT worth a s____ and he went on like that for a minute, and then I told him if he kept on, he was going to have to meet me outside, but I was still calm, and I didn't want to make a scene, but then he grabs me, and I had my nice jacket on, and he grabbed it, and when he grabbed it, I pushed him away from me, but he was still holding onto my jacket, and that's when he went backwards and took me with him, and that's when he went through the window.
ME: With you?
LINUS: With me?
ME: Once you went through the window, were you fighting?
LINUS: No, he was cut up pretty bad. I got up, and then everybody gets around me, and people are getting around him, seeing if he was good, and then I went to take a piss, and when I came back, the police were there.
LINUS: With me?
ME: Once you went through the window, were you fighting?
LINUS: No, he was cut up pretty bad. I got up, and then everybody gets around me, and people are getting around him, seeing if he was good, and then I went to take a piss, and when I came back, the police were there.
ME: Were you arrested?
LINUS: No.
LINUS: No.
ME: Woodstock and Sally said you were arrested.
LINUS: Well, Woodstock is a piece of s_____ lying _____ and Sally is too f_____ing high all the time to remember anything, so--
ME: Why did that just get you mad?
LINUS: Because you don't joke about people getting arrested.
LINUS: Because you don't joke about people getting arrested.
ME: They weren't joking about it. They were just answering the question I had about whether or not anyone was arrested.
LINUS: Why do you care if anyone was arrested?
ME: It was just a question I had.
ME: It was just a question I had.
LINUS: Ask other questions. You don't ask about that if you're going to write about this.
ME: All the names are changed.
LINUS: It doesn't matter. I don't like you bringing that up.
ME: But you weren't arrested.
LINUS: Other people were arrested.
ME: Was Schroeder arrested?
LINUS: They took him to the hospital.
LINUS: They took him to the hospital.
ME: Okay. Do you remember anything about Charlie fighting with Pigpen?
LINUS: I remember Charlie kicked his ass.
LINUS: I remember Charlie kicked his ass.
ME: Okay. Did you talk to Charlie after the fight?
LINUS: I did.
LINUS: I did.
ME: What did he say about it?
LINUS: He said Pigpen was getting his ass up and Charlie had to put it down.
LINUS: He said Pigpen was getting his ass up and Charlie had to put it down.
ME: Do you know anything about what happened after he disappeared?
LINUS: When Charlie did?
ME: Yes.
LINUS: When Charlie did?
ME: Yes.
LINUS: He didn't disappear. He moved.
ME: But he didn't tell anybody.
LINUS: Who was he going to tell?
ME: Lucy?
LINUS: Lucy knew what the deal was.
ME: Lucy?
LINUS: Lucy knew what the deal was.
ME: She knew why he left?
LINUS: She did.
LINUS: She did.
ME: So...why did he leave?
LINUS: That's for somebody else to tell you. You can talk to Lucy about it. Or you can talk to Charlie. You should talk to Charlie.
ME: I would love to. Do you know where he is?
LINUS: I do not.
LINUS: I do not.
ME: When was the last time you spoke?
LINUS: Twenty-something years ago. We didn't talk after he moved.
LINUS: Twenty-something years ago. We didn't talk after he moved.
ME: So how do you know he moved and he didn't disappear?
LINUS: Because I knew what was going on.
LINUS: Because I knew what was going on.
ME: Why did you stop talking?
LINUS: You just lose touch.
LINUS: You just lose touch.
ME: Did you miss him?
LINUS: I missed him. I missed the theater after it closed down. Yeah.
LINUS: I missed him. I missed the theater after it closed down. Yeah.
ME: You didn't do theater after you all lost the theater?
LINUS: I didn't. Lot of--Lot of--I was pissed off, to tell you the truth. I just didn't want to deal with the bulls___ anymore.
LINUS: I didn't. Lot of--Lot of--I was pissed off, to tell you the truth. I just didn't want to deal with the bulls___ anymore.
ME: But then you started to miss it?
LINUS: I did. You get older and you don't take s___ so seriously.
LINUS: I did. You get older and you don't take s___ so seriously.
ME: Like going through a window?
LINUS: That was more of an accident than anything.
LINUS: That was more of an accident than anything.
ME: Did you and Schroeder ever speak again after that?
LINUS: No, I never spoke with him again.
LINUS: No, I never spoke with him again.
ME: And you didn't like Woodstock?
LINUS: No.
LINUS: No.
ME: Why not?
LINUS: She was always starting trouble.
LINUS: She was always starting trouble.
ME: What kind of trouble?
LINUS: She liked setting everybody against each other.
LINUS: She liked setting everybody against each other.
ME: What would she get out of that?
LINUS: I don't know. Some people just like starting fires.
LINUS: I don't know. Some people just like starting fires.
ME: And you don't like Sally either?
LINUS: They're all in the same family now.
LINUS: They're all in the same family now.
ME: I recently learned that.
LINUS: Sally's been out of her mind for a long time. I don't know if she's better now, but she used to be going after everybody all the time. The two of them together--you couldn't have them in the same room together--that's why Charlie never cast them in the same show together.
ME: Because they would fight?
LINUS: Like cats and dogs.
LINUS: Like cats and dogs.
ME: What did you think of Sally slapping Woodstock?
LINUS: She was waiting to do that and I think--I think once a fight like that breaks out, it's just--a dam bursts and suddenly everybody's getting all that bad juju out of their system.
LINUS: She was waiting to do that and I think--I think once a fight like that breaks out, it's just--a dam bursts and suddenly everybody's getting all that bad juju out of their system.
ME: So you think once the Charlie and Pigpen fight started everybody just started--
LINUS: I think me and Schroeder going through the window started it. That's what happened first.
ME: See, I can't get a good timeline on it.
LINUS: Don't take my word for it, but I remember us going through the window, then hearing that Charlie and Pigpen were going at it.
ME: And the slap.
LINUS: Sally was f___-ing crazy. Pardon me. She always was. Woodstock was just a snide little ____, but she was tough if you put her to it. She roughed Sally up.
ME: Now they're in-laws.
LINUS: Small town.
ME: Did you speak with anybody after that?
LINUS: I talk to Marcie from time-to-time. She's my neighbor at the end of the street.
LINUS: I talk to Marcie from time-to-time. She's my neighbor at the end of the street.
ME: Did you know if she and Patty had a fight that night?
LINUS: You mean in the parking lot?
ME: I heard it was in the ladies room if it happened at all.
ME: I heard it was in the ladies room if it happened at all.
LINUS: If it happened, it happened in the parking lot.
ME: Do you know why they would have been fighting?
LINUS: Over a guy.
LINUS: Over a guy.
ME: Do you know which guy?
LINUS: (Laughs.) Yeah.
LINUS: (Laughs.) Yeah.
ME: Do you want to tell me?
LINUS: I don't know if Marcie would get mad if I told you.
LINUS: I don't know if Marcie would get mad if I told you.
ME: I can ask her.
LINUS: I don't think she'll care if I tell you.
ME: By all means.
LINUS: She and Patty were both seeing the same guy.
ME: Right. Who was the guy?
LINUS: [Rerun].
LINUS: [Rerun].
ME: Who's [Rerun]?
LINUS: That was Sally's husband.
LINUS: That was Sally's husband.
ME: Shut the f___ up.
Linus was an actor and carpenter.
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