This week, I'm speaking with Charlie's right-hand man, Snoopy.
He asked to speak with me as soon as he heard I was interviewing people involved with the theater, but I wanted to talk to a few other people first to get a sense of what the perception was of his relationship with Charlie.
Here's the interview:
ME: When did you meet Charlie?
SNOOPY: I met him at one of the auditions he did for one of the first shows at the theater.
SNOOPY: I met him at one of the auditions he did for one of the first shows at the theater.
ME: Were you auditioning?
SNOOPY: My girlfriend at the time was, but I was there hanging out. Seeing what was up.
ME: How did you get involved then?
SNOOPY: I liked how he ran the auditions. He came across like a good guy. I went up to him after and I offered to help if he needed any and that was it.
SNOOPY: I liked how he ran the auditions. He came across like a good guy. I went up to him after and I offered to help if he needed any and that was it.
ME: How long did you two work together?
SNOOPY: Until he left.
SNOOPY: Until he left.
ME: When the theater closed.
SNOOPY We talked after the theater closed, but then he took off.
ME: Why didn't you talk after that?
SNOOPY: Just wasn't much to talk about.
ME: What was your relationship with him?
SNOOPY: Friends and work friends. From the theater. That's how I would say it.
SNOOPY: Friends and work friends. From the theater. That's how I would say it.
ME: What did you do for him at the theater?
SNOOPY: Everything. I was the stage manager for all his shows. I helped out behind the scenes with some of the carpentry and set building and those sorts of things. I was on the board.
SNOOPY: Everything. I was the stage manager for all his shows. I helped out behind the scenes with some of the carpentry and set building and those sorts of things. I was on the board.
ME: So you were everywhere?
SNOOPY: Yes.
SNOOPY: Yes.
ME: What do you remember about the night of the brawl?
SNOOPY: I remember it being disgraceful.
SNOOPY: I remember it being disgraceful.
ME: What was your impression about how it started?
SNOOPY: It started because everybody was trying to get a rise out of Charlie.
SNOOPY: It started because everybody was trying to get a rise out of Charlie.
ME: What do you mean?
SNOOPY: That whole thing was a set-up. Woodstock was in on it. Pigpen. Sally. All of them.
SNOOPY: That whole thing was a set-up. Woodstock was in on it. Pigpen. Sally. All of them.
ME: Wait, wait, wait--you think they faked the whole thing?
SNOOPY: I think that Pigpen and Woodstock had a plan going where they were going to make a scene and get Charlie in trouble and kicked out of theater.
SNOOPY: I think that Pigpen and Woodstock had a plan going where they were going to make a scene and get Charlie in trouble and kicked out of theater.
ME: Like a coup almost?
SNOOPY: Call it what you want.
ME: Where are you getting this from?
SNOOPY: Let me tell you how this went down. I get somebody coming up to me that night telling me Pigpen was there and I need to go get Charlie.
SNOOPY: Let me tell you how this went down. I get somebody coming up to me that night telling me Pigpen was there and I need to go get Charlie.
ME: Who came to get you?
SNOOPY: I don't remember.
SNOOPY: I don't remember.
ME: Was it Sally's husband?
SNOOPY: It could have been, but I don't remember.
SNOOPY: It could have been, but I don't remember.
ME: Okay.
SNOOPY: I do remember I told the person, whoever it was, that I wasn't getting Charlie, because he was busy making sure everything was going okay at the opening night. I was going to go take care of Pigpen. I go looking for him, and I can't find him.
ME: This was before the show?
SNOOPY: Yeah, he must have heard I was looking for him, and he took off.
SNOOPY: Yeah, he must have heard I was looking for him, and he took off.
ME: Then he came back after?
SNOOPY: By then, I was in the theater and Charlie was right next to me. Right next to me talking, and then Marcie comes and asks if she can show him something real quick. Why would you say somebody you wanted to show them something real quick and then you're bringing him into a fight?
ME: So Marcie came and got him?
SNOOPY: Marcie came and got him, and Patty's talking to me, because she's the other side of the snake, and we're talking and talking, and then someone comes running in and tells me I gotta come, because Charlie on the ground with Pigpen.
SNOOPY: By then, I was in the theater and Charlie was right next to me. Right next to me talking, and then Marcie comes and asks if she can show him something real quick. Why would you say somebody you wanted to show them something real quick and then you're bringing him into a fight?
ME: So Marcie came and got him?
SNOOPY: Marcie came and got him, and Patty's talking to me, because she's the other side of the snake, and we're talking and talking, and then someone comes running in and tells me I gotta come, because Charlie on the ground with Pigpen.
ME: That's how you learned about the fight?
SNOOPY: By the time I got out there, there were already people pulling them apart. I see Pigpen trying to get one more sucker punch in, and I run at him, and then next thing I know, someone's pulling me back, and I'm saying 'Let me go' because I know Pigpen's got friends at the theater and I thought they were going to team up on Charlie and it wasn't going to be a fair fight, so I'm saying 'Let me go' and I'm kicking at whoever's got me, and they had to drag me all the way down the hall into one of the back hallways.
ME: Is that where you were when--
SNOOPY: I was there until the police showed up.
ME: Did you talk to the police?
SNOOPY: The police talked to me, because I had some trouble with the police back then, and I told them I was in the back the whole time except for when I tried to help. Once I saw Charlie was all right, I was all right.
SNOOPY: The police talked to me, because I had some trouble with the police back then, and I told them I was in the back the whole time except for when I tried to help. Once I saw Charlie was all right, I was all right.
ME: Did you see what happened with Charlie, Patty, and Marcie in the ladies room?
SNOOPY: I saw Charlie go in the men's room to get cleaned up and that ____-ing _____ Patty going in there and I yelled out 'Patty, stay the ___ out of there' and she went in anyway and two seconds later, Charlie's coming out with blood on him.
SNOOPY: I saw Charlie go in the men's room to get cleaned up and that ____-ing _____ Patty going in there and I yelled out 'Patty, stay the ___ out of there' and she went in anyway and two seconds later, Charlie's coming out with blood on him.
ME: So he didn't go in the ladies room?
SNOOPY: No. Marcie and Patty went in the men's--he might have been in the women's room, now that I think about it, because there might have been people in the men's room, but he went in first, and then they went in.
SNOOPY: No. Marcie and Patty went in the men's--he might have been in the women's room, now that I think about it, because there might have been people in the men's room, but he went in first, and then they went in.
ME: They said he went in and started antagonizing them.
SNOOPY: Bull___.
ME: Patty said Charlie accused her of gossiping and--
SNOOPY: That's not an accusation. That's the truth.
ME: She also said Charlie was stealing money from the theater.
SNOOPY: Bull___ bull____ bull____. Let me tell you--her little girlfriend, Marcie, that was the Treasurer. If somebody's stealing money, why didn't Marcie say anything about it? How was Charlie stealing money when Marcie was in charge of the money?
ME: Did money ever go missing?
SNOOPY: If it did, Marcie took it, but I never heard that.
ME: Did money ever go missing?
SNOOPY: If it did, Marcie took it, but I never heard that.
ME: You never heard Charlie stole money?
SNOOPY: I never heard it where it was true.
SNOOPY: I never heard it where it was true.
ME: But did you hear it?
SNOOPY: Again, I heard it as it relates to people trying to take Charlie down.
SNOOPY: Again, I heard it as it relates to people trying to take Charlie down.
ME: So who specifically were these people?
SNOOPY: Patty. Marcie. Pigpen. Woodstock.
SNOOPY: Patty. Marcie. Pigpen. Woodstock.
ME: Those four?
SNOOPY: It was more than that, but those were the main ones.
SNOOPY: It was more than that, but those were the main ones.
ME: Okay.
SNOOPY: And Lucy.
ME: Lucy?
SNOOPY: Yes.
ME: Weren't Lucy and Charlie dating?
SNOOPY: They were and then when he told her he wanted to call it quits, she started talking to Pigpen behind his back.
ME: Is that what the fight was about at the cast party where Charlie and Pigpen had their falling out?
SNOOPY: I don't know if that's what it was about, but I know Lucy was talking to Pigpen about taking over the theater from Charlie.
ME: And Charlie knew that?
SNOOPY: Charlie suspected it. That's one of the reasons he wanted to take off when all this was done.
SNOOPY: Charlie suspected it. That's one of the reasons he wanted to take off when all this was done.
ME: So you think the whole fight was manufactured?
SNOOPY: I think they knew if we got kicked out of the auditorium that was it for Charlie. He would get blamed. They all knew what was going down. Why else was Woodstock fighting with Lucy? Why would Woodstock fight with Lucy when they were friends? They were just trying to make it look as bad as possible. That's why Linus and Schroeder broke that window. Everybody was putting on a show.
SNOOPY: I think they knew if we got kicked out of the auditorium that was it for Charlie. He would get blamed. They all knew what was going down. Why else was Woodstock fighting with Lucy? Why would Woodstock fight with Lucy when they were friends? They were just trying to make it look as bad as possible. That's why Linus and Schroeder broke that window. Everybody was putting on a show.
ME: But wait--now you're saying Schroeder and Linus were in on it too.
SNOOPY: They all were. Who do you think called the police? We don't call the police here. Nobody does that.
ME: Wait--who called the police?
SNOOPY: Lucy.
SNOOPY: Lucy.
ME: Lucy called the police?
SNOOPY Lucy called the police and when the police showed up they said the person on the phone told them Charlie was fighting people. And I know she was the one who called.
SNOOPY Lucy called the police and when the police showed up they said the person on the phone told them Charlie was fighting people. And I know she was the one who called.
ME: But she was in the fight.
SNOOPY: She called before the fight even started.
ME: What?
SNOOPY: Somebody heard her on the phone in the back near the dressing rooms.
SNOOPY: Somebody heard her on the phone in the back near the dressing rooms.
ME: Talking about a fight that hadn't started yet?
SNOOPY: Yes.
SNOOPY: Yes.
ME: Who heard her?
SNOOPY: I can't say that.
SNOOPY: I can't say that.
ME: It's been twenty-five years, Snoopy.
SNOOPY: I still can't say, but they heard her.
ME: And didn't they think it was weird that she was on the phone talking about a fight--
SNOOPY: They didn't know what it was until they put it together afterwards.
ME: Couldn't someone else have called the police and told them--
SNOOPY: People don't call the police around here. We don't do that. That's how I knew it was all a set-up.
ME: But Linus liked Charlie, no?
SNOOPY: Nobody likes anybody enough that when Pigpen is saying--When I take over you're going to get this and that. Suddenly there's no loyalty.
SNOOPY: Nobody likes anybody enough that when Pigpen is saying--When I take over you're going to get this and that. Suddenly there's no loyalty.
ME: So Pigpen was saying, 'Put me in charge and I'll give you all lead roles.'
SNOOPY: And they set it up.
ME: But it didn't work. You all lost the theater and then that was it.
SNOOPY: There was some sort of plan to move it somewhere else or talk to the school about getting rid of Charlie so they could keep using it, but they're all ____-ing stupid, so it didn't work.
ME: Do you know where Charlie is now?
SNOOPY: I don't.
SNOOPY: I don't.
ME: Was Sally in on this whole plan?
SNOOPY: Sally's just a ____. Nobody would let her in on a plan unless you wanted the whole damn thing to fall apart.
SNOOPY: Sally's just a ____. Nobody would let her in on a plan unless you wanted the whole damn thing to fall apart.
ME: Do you know what was going on with her and her husband and Patty and Marcie?
SNOOPY: I knew they were all _____-ing each other. Everybody knew that.
SNOOPY: I knew they were all _____-ing each other. Everybody knew that.
ME: And it wasn't a big scandal?
SNOOPY: We all used to ____ each other. It wasn't a big deal.
SNOOPY: We all used to ____ each other. It wasn't a big deal.
ME: Wow, that's...progressive.
SNOOPY: You smoke a joint and put on some music and we'd all get it going. That was the only time we ever got along.
ME: But did that ever cause problems?
SNOOPY: Sometimes, but it was all the talking behind each other's backs that was what broke everything up.
SNOOPY: Sometimes, but it was all the talking behind each other's backs that was what broke everything up.
ME: Did you know that people were saying Charlie was gay?
SNOOPY: I had heard that.
SNOOPY: I had heard that.
ME: Did you believe it?
SNOOPY: I believed he liked guys and girls.
ME: Did you and he ever have a thing?
SNOOPY: No, we were just friends.
SNOOPY: No, we were just friends.
ME: Do you know where he is?
SNOOPY: No. But I can tell you, there's somebody else who had a thing with him at the theater.
SNOOPY: No. But I can tell you, there's somebody else who had a thing with him at the theater.
ME: Who?
SNOOPY: I shouldn't say.
ME: Okay.
SNOOPY: Do you want me to say?
ME: Um...yes?
SNOOPY: You wanted to know why he was fighting with Pigpen?
ME: Yeah.
SNOOPY: Well.
(Silence.)
ME: Oh _____ me.
Snoopy works for a food distribution company.
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