Theater and The Plaque

I wasn't expecting to see a resolution to this in the midst of a national crisis, but strange things are happening every day, so why not?

If you're not familiar with my quest to take down a dead guy's plaque, you'll want to read these interviews first:

https://thiscantbebroccoli.blogspot.com/2020/01/theater-and-dead-guy.html

https://thiscantbebroccoli.blogspot.com/2020/02/theater-and-dead-guys-plaque.html

But basically it boils down to--

I wanted a theater to take down a plaque in their lobby with a dead guy's name on it.

And lo and behold, I was contacted last week and informed that the plaque was coming down, and the theater's (new) Artistic Director wanted to talk to me about it.

Here's the interview:

ME:  So the last time I talked to someone about this, I didn't really get anywhere.

THEM:  I'm sorry about that.

ME:  How long have you been at the theater?

THEM:  This is my first week.

ME:  What's it like having a first week in the middle of all this?

THEM:  It's--uh, well it's not a great way of doing it, but I was ready to take on the challenge.

ME:  You might be the first Artistic Director I know who's taken over a theater at a time like this.

THEM:  There was really no choice.  The other--uh, the person preceding me had very serious and important reasons for stepping down right now.  Thank god they're healthy, but they needed to do it, and, uh, a theater can't really go without a captain right now, and I saw that they were in need and I was happy to step in and take it from there.

ME:  And the first thing you did was take down the plaque?

THEM:  (Laughs.)  It wasn't the first thing I did, Kevin.

ME:  But you did do it.

THEM:  I did.

ME:  Then you emailed me.

THEM:  I thought you'd want to know.

ME:  I am hard up for good news at the moment, so yes.

THEM:  Glad I could help.

ME:  What about the board?

THEM:  I consulted with the board, and I--I was willing to come on if the board met some of my conditions, and that was one of them.

ME:  So they didn't want to die on this hill anymore?

THEM:  They were agreeable.  That's the most I can say about it, because I wasn't at the meeting where they discussed it.

ME:  Listen, I'll take my victories wherever I can get them.

THEM:  Your blog was why I pushed for it, so--

ME:  Really?

THEM:  Yes.

ME:  I'm so flattered.

THEM:  I also thought--I think we're in agreement on this--that history is given too much importance in the theater.  Theater should be about right now.  I don't want to get into the in's and out's of a, uh, man whose no longer with us who I was never able to meet, but I do know that nothing should be a barrier to getting into a theater, and I--You know, you can say whatever you want about gratitude, and this may be my own way of looking at the world, but I don't think dead people care whether or not we put up plaques about them.

ME:  We are in agreement on that.

THEM:  I've found--and I'll say this right now--I'm talking to you on the phone and meanwhile there are about a half dozen people working diligently behind the scenes to make sure this company survives. Now, in fifty years, I'm the one they'll want to give the plaque to, because I'm the person in the position that gets the most attention, but that doesn't mean I deserve that plaque.  It doesn't mean I don't deserve it, but it--You tweeted about the savior narrative right after we talked.

ME:  You follow me on Twitter?

THEM:  Yes.

ME:  I'm so sorry.

THEM:  (Laughs.)  You tweeted that we need stories about communities as saviors, and that's so right.  That's right on the money.  We can't keep perpetuating these narratives that straight men and white men and, uh, often, not-so-nice men built the American theater with no help from anyone else.  We were adamant, I think, for a long time in this country, about letting those men have the spotlight, and now that we've started to move that spotlight onto everybody else, the next, uh--Well, I'll say battle.  Why not?  The next battle is about honoring those men for what we have been told is their honorable service.  Now, I'm not saying they did nothing.  But theater is a team sport.  It's communal, and when you put up a plaque honoring a theater being founded, don't just put one person on the plaque, put everybody that was there on the plaque, because a good man doesn't have a good woman standing behind him, he has ten great women and a few other men too.

ME:  What's the response been like since you took the plaque down?

THEM:  Some people are very unhappy with me.

ME:  Do you care?

THEM:  I do care, and I am looking forward to saying what I just said in forums with our audiences and with the people who want to make this about putting a man's personal past on trial, which is not what this is about.

ME:  So you would have taken down the plaque no matter what?

THEM:  Uh.

ME:  Be honest.

THEM:  If the person was universally beloved, I would have left it up longer.  I wouldn't have picked that battle at this time, but--we need a fresh start.  All theaters do.  They're going to get one whether they want it or not.  Having this emblem of where we've come from--

ME:  Some people might say it's good to draw strength from the past.

THEM:  I thought you were on my side?

ME:  I am!

THEM:  (Laughing.)  I'm kidding.  But draw strength from the future.  Not the past.  The past already happened.  Whatever strength was there?  It's been used to get us where we are now.  You have to look ahead.  Anytime I walk into a theater and I see photos up everywhere of past great productions I think--This theater is subsisting on its own greatness.  On what it's done and not on what it's going to do.

ME:  Do you ever like looking back?

THEM:  Right before I retire I'll look back.  I'm sure I'll enjoy it.

ME:  Do you believe the negative things people have said about him?

THEM:  About who?

ME:  Nice try.

THEM:  (Laughs.)  You want to get me fired in my first week.

ME:  You just seem very open so I figured--

THEM:  No, I'll answer.  I did have some conversations with the people who had negative things to say and I had conversations with the people who had positive things to say, and like most things in life--I think everyone's telling the truth and the truth is a lot more complicated than everyone thinks it is.  I do believe the people who say they were hurt and that they were harassed and bullied and I also believe the people who said [Name] was the greatest director, teacher--but that has nothing to do with me and the theater I'm trying to build provided I don't have his name stuck up on the wall.  He got us here as did all the people who are speaking out against him and for him.  I don't think anybody would tell me I need to put every name on the wall of every person whose ever done something for the theater, because we don't have enough wall space.

ME:  You're kind of being diplomatic about all this.

THEM:  I'm speaking in my role now.  If you want to speak personally, we can do that off the record.

ME:  Ohhhh okay.

THEM:  I will say the most damning things I've heard about him have been--in stories told to me by people who loved him.  Those stories have not cast him in a great light even though casting in a great light was the intent of the person telling me the story.

ME:  That's so interesting.

THEM:  That's how it is sometimes.

ME:  I know you don't want the history to inform what you're doing now, but what does it feel like stepping into all that history?

THEM:  It's how anyone feels when they take a position at a theater that's been around for a long time.  But it will slow you down and it will hold you back to let yourself try to address all that history at once.

ME:  What about the people you have to work with who disagree with taking down the plaque?

THEM:  The actors and--

ME:  Everyone.

THEM:  Um.  They're entitled to their opinion, but what we hang in the lobby isn't as important as what we do onstage.

ME:  That's so perfect I don't want to ask you anything else.

THEM:  (Laughs.)  Should we stop there?

ME:  Let's stop there.

THEM:  Thank you.

ME:  No, thank you.  And good luck to you.

THEM:  Thank you, Kevin

Them is an Artistic Director who started work this week.